file Help with Speaker Selection and Positioning

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Moderator Posted 3 years 4 months ago
Last edit: 3 years 4 months ago by Moderator. info_outline
#15102
Depends on ceiling height, but 12-15' is certainly good. It appeared the ceiling slope was fairly slight so I think it will be a non-issue.

Correct, it needs to have the distance for the geometry to "work" to give you the impression that channel is coming from ear level, not above. An all HTR 7000 does work, we did it at a trade show, but adequate distances must be maintained for the ear-level channels.

Generally, 5.1.4 is the preferred setup, even Dolby says so now. Especially in a smaller room.

MPX in-wall a little above ear height is not an issue for surrounds, if you prefer that setup, especially if your height channels are much higher.

LOL ... thanks for The Big Lebowski reference. Moderator Dude was a name given to me by the forum and it stuck. I am comfortable with all forms of Dude, however, address as you wish.
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T Cobe Posted 3 years 4 months ago
#15103


Thanks for the tech support Moderator Dude!

Cheers,

T Cobe
Speakers: Triton One L/R, SCXL, Aon 3 Surr/Back, HTR-7000 Height
Pre/Pro/AVR: Anthem AVM 60, Emotiva XSP-1
Amps: Emotiva XPA-5(2), Emotiva XPA-1L (2)
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Carlos Fernandez Posted 3 years 4 months ago
Last edit: 3 years 4 months ago by Carlos Fernandez. Reason: Adding photo info_outline
#15109
Thanks again for the feedback.

I had a call with my local dealer who spoke to Sandy about positioning the speakers in my room. He came back with two configurations.

One is a full 7.1.4 setup with (8) HTR 7000s in the ceiling. (4) in the normal Atmos height positions in a rectangle around the couch area, and (4) in a another rectangular pattern that overlaps the Atmos speakers and runs behind the listening position. I'm finding it a little difficult to envision in my head, so I will try and draw it out to get feedback from my dealer/Sandy and hopefully the forum.

Second is a 5.1.4 setup with (4) HTR 7000s for the height channels and (2) 650s in-wall on axis or slightly behind the main listening position.

Interesting options, I'm going to attempt to draw it up for my dealer so hopefully he can pass it off to Sandy for feedback. I was hoping to avoid (8) HTR 7000s due to the cost. I like El Duderino's configuration as well of the (2) HTR 7000s way off behind the listening position and (4) 650s as heights. I was just a little suprised with all the different configurations. I guess this is a complicated case, lots of ins and lots of outs?

My dealer mentioned he (or Sandy, don't recall) felt strongly about NOT using 650s for the Atmos height speakers due to the ceiling angle (8 degrees). I thought that could be compensated by angling the tweeter. From all that I read here it would appear the 650s were preferred for ceilings above 10ft but perhaps I was wrong?

Anyways, the research continues. Thanks again for all the feedback!

EDIT: Added my own mock up for what I understood my dealer and Sandy's recommendation to be for 7.1.4 setup? I sent it to my dealer for feedback, hopefully I'm not too far off. Red is existing speakers, green would be atmos, and blue would be surrounds.
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Moderator Posted 3 years 4 months ago
#15113

Carlos Fernandez wrote: My dealer mentioned he (or Sandy, don't recall) felt strongly about NOT using 650s for the Atmos height speakers due to the ceiling angle (8 degrees). I thought that could be compensated by angling the tweeter. From all that I read here it would appear the 650s were preferred for ceilings above 10ft but perhaps I was wrong?


Not preferred, but OK for use with ceiling heights over 10'.
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Carlos Fernandez Posted 3 years 4 months ago
Last edit: 3 years 4 months ago by Carlos Fernandez. Reason: Added another question info_outline
#15206
Hello again,
Just following up on this thread because I have yet to make a decision. I am shooting for a 5.1.4 setup but trying to determine if 6x HTR 7000s (for rears and 4 atmos heights) or 2x HTR 7000s and 4x 650s are the better route (with the htr as rear and 650 for heights).

I wanted to provide this quote from another topic I was reading where user twinturbo11 was asking for some similar advice, mainly regarding 7000 vs 650 with respect to ceiling height being a determining factor. It seems the 650s were recommended for atmos heights.

http://www.goldenear.com/forum/38-Invisa-Series/2740-htr-7000-for-atmos-surrounds

---
"Short answer, sure, that will work. You'll want to make sure you can position the L/R Surrounds far enough away from the listening position for the geometry to work and give you a surround image at ear level. You might also consider the 7000's for the two Atmos height channels, positioned just to the left and right of the listening area, pointing toward the center seat and slightly forward. After much experimentation and listening, the 7000 was much preferred for this application to a direct radiating speaker unless the ceiling is over 9 feet tall.
"

and

"Hi again,

With an 11 foot ceiling you are in a much better position to get good results with Invisa 650's. Yes, you can orient the tweeter towards the middle of the listening area. The 7000's are better wider spaced than the typical same-as-fronts layout in the Dolby drawings.

Do not use 650's for surrounds or rears in the ceiling in an Atmos setup. Use the 7000's and try to get them as far away from the listening area as possible to take advantage of the geometry of the sound-field. Properly implemented, the 7000's will produce an ear-level image, as opposed to above your head. Perhaps easier to achieve with a 5.1.4 setup as it is probably difficult to get both surrounds and rears an adequate distance from the listening area.

All speakers should be direct to take advantage of the object-based 360 degree sound-field encoding that is Dolby Atmos."

---

I may be overthinking this as I'm sure either will net me great results. Looking at the manuals for both the HTR 7000 and the 650, I noticed the 7000 makes no mention being used as heights whereas the 650 does have a section dedicated to configuration for that particular use. I think I've read that Sandy prefers the 7000s for height channels, just wondering if this holds true with what was referenced above even when the ceilings heights are above 9 feet.

Also wondering if there is a formula for determining the proper distance for the HTR 7000. Referencing user twinturbo11 again, he references a right angle calculator where you can enter the distance to the ceiling above the MLP and the angle of the HTR 7000 (30 degrees) to calculate the proper distance to position the HTR 7000. I believe this assumes a flat ceiling.

Thanks again for all the guidance, much appreciated.
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Moderator Posted 3 years 4 months ago
#15214
The Invisa 650 manual was recently re-done to include discussion of height channels, the HTR 7000 manual has not (yet). The manual describes the application for HTR 7000 as main L/C and/or R and for Surrounds. Sandy does prefer the HTR 7000 for any application with ceilings below 10' due to proximity issues and hot spots. The suggested positioning, in general, is discussed and diagrammed in the website Atmos Systems section. Anything more specific should come from a local dealer/integrator on site evaluating your exact space.
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