file Two Channel guy trying out basic home theatre

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mattgumaer Posted 2 years 10 months ago
#25322
Hi all,

I'm a happy new (relatively) owner of Triton references. I'm largely focused on two channel sound and normally drive them with a Benchmark DAC/preamp and Benchmark amp. I've been very happy with the sound, although there are some reinforced bass issues (which is not why I'm posting).

I decided to give basic home theatre a try. This consisted of buying a Yamaha home theatre receiver (new model from Costco), buying a Goldenear XXL center channel, and using two old Mission bookshelf speakers as rear surrounds, at least for now.

So, I connect the main channel pre-outs on the Yamaha to the Benchmark pre-amp in theatre bypass mode to the Benchmark amp to power the references for home theatre. But, here is my issue, if I just run the references with just the main speaker connections through the Benchmark gear, I don't seem to get much home theatre bass. On the other hand, if I use the Benchmark gear to power the main connections but connect the LFE output of the Yamaha to the References, now I get crazy, house shaking bass, from the references when watching movies......which I like.....at least for movies (I'm not a basshead when it comes to music but, I do like when an explosion feels like an explosion in a movie). The problem when connecting the Yamaha LFE output to the references (and leaving it connected) is that, when I switch back to two channel music through the Benchmark gear, the normal two channel bass seems very diminished. I'm assuming the speakers somehow recognize that the LFE channel connection is controlling the subwoofer section of the speaker and, since its not receiving a signal from the Yamaha, the speakers interpret the lack of LFE input as not calling for bass.

So, am I correct that leaving the LFE outputs from the home theatre receiver connected to the references when the Yamaha is off reduces the bass for my two channel setup? If so, is there an elegant solution to this issue that doesn't require to plug and unplug the LFE subwoofer cables every time I switch between two channel music and movies? Any insight is greatly appreciated.

I love the speakers but, this little wrinkle has me perplexed.

Matt
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Moderator Posted 2 years 10 months ago
#25323
Has nothing to do with LFE being connected, it is likely an incorrect setting in bass management on the receiver.
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ArthurDaniels Posted 2 years 10 months ago
Last edit: 2 years 10 months ago by ArthurDaniels. Reason: spelling error info_outline
#25324
Hello Matt,

Welcome to the GE Forum. There are many posts on this forum related to bass management and the Triton speaker series. Among them are a number of my posts related to my experiments with various configurations I have tried with my Triton Ones.

Here are some thoughts and suggestions for you to consider:

1. Go to the Web and find some bass tracks to download for testing purposes. These tracks will be of individual lower frequency tones starting at about 120 hz and will continue down to 16 hz. Using these tones as you experiment with settings will help you determine how the settings affect the Reference's bass response.

2. It has been my experience that finding a satisfactory setting for my Triton Ones' LFE Level controls has been difficult when I have attempted to use my Ones for both two-channel music and for movies. I resolved my problem by using my Triton Ones exclusively for two-channel music and having a completely different speaker setup for movies (including using a separate dedicated sub for the LFE output from my AV Receiver). This arrangement has provided me the freedom to set my Ones' LFE controls to provide the desired bass level for music, while also allowing me the ability to to separately set the LFE level for movies.

3. I can understand why my approach might not be suitable for your situation. In my case, we watch very few "action" movies, so I am relatively unconcerned about "explosive bass" from movies. However, my relatively inexpensive Klipsch sub provides plenty of movie bass when called upon to do so.

4. It has been my experience that finding a suitable approach for providing suitable "music bass" for my two-channel music listening has been much more difficult than finding suitable "movie bass". For music, I want deep, but not "boomy" bass. I want to hear and feel the low tones of a pipe organ; I want to hear and feel the deep thump of a large bass drum; I want to hear and feel the thump and tone of an acoustic double bass. But, I want all of these experiences without boomy bass or the sensation that the music is coming out of a well.

5. Music preferences will likely play a significant role in your determination of the best bass sound in your setup. I listen to classical music and traditional jazz (far more classical than anything else). I would expect my bass preferences to be very different from someone who listens to Rock, or even Country, music.

6. Even with my dedicated two-channel music system, I have found that I want some bass augmentation at low listening volume levels. Thus, I have also dedicated a Paradigm subwoofer to my two-channel system. I drive the Paradigm sub from the Preamp Output on my Cambridge 2-channel integrated amp. This output has a level which varies with the Cambridge's volume control. This approach allow me to have additional bass at low volume levels. I have a remote power shutoff arrangement for the Paradigm so that I can turn it off when I am listening at higher overall sound levels.

I hope these thoughts help you as you investigate your options.

Happy listening,

Art
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mattgumaer Posted 2 years 10 months ago
#25328
Thanks for the feedback. When I listen to two-channel music, my home theater receiver is off but, the LFE output has a Y-cable coming out which is then connected to the LFE inputs on both of the Triton References. Are you saying that, with the receiver turned off, the fact that the LFE cables are connected should have no impact on the on the output of the speakers? Thanks.

Matt

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GDHAL Posted 2 years 10 months ago
Last edit: 2 years 10 months ago by GDHAL. info_outline
#25329
Hi Matt. Welcome to the forum. I didn't intend to respond to this thread, because when I first read it I noted that the Moderator already chimed in and offered great advice (as is typically the case). However, given your last post herein, there is something I can add, and this **may** be contrary to what the Moderator and some others believe.

I do not use the LFE inputs at all. I started a post herein the forum some time back having to do with "Shorting the LFE inputs" on account of a theoretical improvement. I can tell you there definitely is. That said, if your home theater receiver is working properly, when off and connected to the LFE inputs, it still may not necessarily act as a dead short, that can be attained with these or something similar www.amazon.com/dp/B017DH76VS/ref=psdc_3236443011_t1_B01M5C678X So, your receiver *may* be interfering somehow even when off. I'm not suggesting it is, nevertheless, this remains a possibility and it may behoove you to test that possibility.

The improvement I'm writing of with the LFE shorted is audible in-so-far as the noise floor of the speaker (amp when on) is that much lower. While the speaker is powered on (light on too) and nothing is connected to the LFE, put your ear very close to the bass speakers and you should hear (normal for speakers with internal amps) a very faint sound likened to a gentle breeze being blown through a round opening (like tunnel). It can be difficult to hear, so use a stethoscope if you doubt me. Now short the inputs in the manner I describe and perform the same listening test.

I realize this is somewhat of a tangent to the issue you are reporting and wanting to resolve. The Moderators objection to my procedure is that the RCA shorting plug conceivably could come loose and rattle, in which case the noise would be increased. However, there are RCA plugs where one would need a pliers to remove, so that is a non issue.

Also note that you may only safely short an RCA *input*, NEVER an output. Unused inputs on the amp should also be shorted, IMO.

Something else to consider that may help in your situation. Assuming the rear of your speakers are readily accessible (i.e. pulled out far enough from the walls, cabinets, etc. which realistically they should be anyway), certain music passages and/or home theater movies could necessitate adjusting the bass dial. Granted, I too prefer to "set it and forget it" and it isn't meant to double as a bass tone control, but if you do not have tone controls and the bass dial is easily accessible, this becomes an option. Of course it is simple enough to return the bass dial to the "normal" position once you are listening in two channel mode.

Best of luck/times with your Reference speakers. They are awesome!
Golden Ear Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X
halr.x10.mx/TritonReference.htm ; halr.x10.mx/other.html ; halr.x10.mx/AV.jpg

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ArthurDaniels Posted 2 years 10 months ago
#25330
Unless I am mistaken, so long as you have no active signal present at the LFE inputs on your Reference speakers, just having cables plugged in to the LFE inputs should not affect the sound.

Best,

Art

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