heart Power Cords

  • charliehatch's Avatar Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 414
    • Thank you received: 725
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
charliehatch Posted 6 months 1 week ago
#26082
Wow, anthem, that's quite a wait! Do you have an expected delivery date?

My understanding is that the P20 first rectifies the incoming AC to highly regulated DC. Then it uses a digital circuit to synthesize a very pure sine wave (or another optional waveform) at 60 Hz. Somehow, by magic, it can push gobs of power into this sine wave (2000 VA continuous, 3600 VA peak). That part is beyond me.

So it's more than an amplifier. It completely rebuilds the power from scratch, and I doubt that it is affected much by upstream line noise. From the manual, "We discourage the use of any other power conditioning equipment before or after the P20 without considerable evaluation." The P20 has a specified output impedance of only 5 milliohms, so it should be able to source gobs of power without a significant delay. I suspect adding a conditioner would effectively increase the effective output impedance and maybe cause other problems. Just guessing here.

I will pass on my impressions. If all goes well, I should have it around the end of February.

If you're interested, you can read more here:
www.psaudio.com/products/directstream-power-plant-20/

Stereophile had a review in a recent issue.

Charlie
2.0 System: Passport SSD USB > Oppo 105D digital out > Blue Jeans 1694A Digital Coax > DSPeaker Anti-Mode X4 DAC/Pre > Audience Au24 SX RCA interconnects > Bel Canto e.One Ref600M monoblocks > Audience Au24 SX banana speaker cables > Triton References
The following user(s) said Thank You: anthem, rjohn79395

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • rjohn79395's Avatar Offline school
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 1896
    • Thank you received: 3874
    • Karma: 2
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
rjohn79395 Posted 6 months 1 week ago
Last edit: 6 months 1 week ago by rjohn79395. info_outline
#26083
I’m getting more and more convinced that ample, clean/cleaned up power solves a bunch of HT and SQ problems. Most high end gear has probably better power conditioning or control to better feed whatever processing that component does. Line noise makes processing clear, clean signals more difficult, period, for any component, from DAC’s to amps.

Whatever works, but line noise does degrade any componentt’s ability to process SQ at it’s best, even probably the very best components IMO.

So, Charlie, if your PS Audio P20 fixes all that, I’ll be happy for you, and jealous!

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, Invisa 525 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 7010
Amps: AT525NC 5 channel, Parasound 275 v.2 stereo
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, SONOS Connect
47" Panasonic 3D smart tv
The following user(s) said Thank You: anthem, charliehatch

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • WashedUpAudio's Avatar Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
    • Posts: 5
    • Thank you received: 7
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
WashedUpAudio Posted 5 months 3 weeks ago
#26159
Hi all, been loving the T1's front, xl centre(2018) and T2's surround for years now. APlus Oval 8 speaker cables.

I replied to a point on the link below but feel my Lessloss c-marc power cable test would be best viewed here.

www.goldenear.com/forum/Triton-Towers/36...lation-feet?start=42
The following user(s) said Thank You: rjohn79395, charliehatch

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • WashedUpAudio's Avatar Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
    • Posts: 5
    • Thank you received: 7
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
WashedUpAudio Posted 5 months 3 weeks ago
#26160
charliehatch, p20? Impressions in your system please?
The following user(s) said Thank You: rjohn79395

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • charliehatch's Avatar Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 414
    • Thank you received: 725
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
charliehatch Posted 5 months 3 weeks ago
#26162
OK, audio gang, here's my update on the PS Audio P20

Executive Summary: Amazingly enough, this regenerator has made a significant improvement in the sound of the system.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I had been using a Furman Pro C 20A conditioner that was plugged into a non-dedicated 20 A line. My two TRefs were plugged into separate outlets on the same line. This line was daisy-chained through several additional outlets through the kitchen from the breaker box.

Before ordering the P20, I had an electrician install a dedicated 20 A line that would be used to feed the P20. (PS Audio requires this if you’re going to use the P20 to its full 20 A capability.) The 12 AWG line cost about $400 and runs outside the house along the wall in conduit.

Once the dedicated line was installed, I switched the Furman conditioner to that outlet to see if I could hear a difference. I kept the TRefs plugged into the daisy-chained line. I found no significant difference in the sound with the dedicated line. (See? I don’t just imagine things….at least most of the time.)

Because I live in the middle of audio nowhere (Western Nevada, just East of Lake Tahoe), I ordered the P20 direct from PS Audio. It took only two weeks for it to be delivered to my door via FedEx. All 100 lbs of it. Somehow I was able to schlep the box into my living room, unpack, and install it.

I hooked up all my audio equipment AND the TRefs into the P20. I kept the TV plugged into the conditioner just in case there was too much total power draw.

The P20 has a built in oscilloscope, and I could see that the incoming power waveform was clipped on top and bottom with additional high frequency noise and a strange little bump showing at the bottom of the waveform. (According to PS Audio, the bandwidth of the scope is around 2 - 5 kHz, so it may miss some of the digital hash that might be floating on the line.) The input power company voltage measured 123 V (I saw 124 at one point, and 126 (!) a few weeks back). The P20 output waveform looks very clean, as it should, and the system was set up at the factory to supply 120 V. This is adjustable.

The P20 also has a power meter, so I cranked up the system to pretty loud and listened to Bela Fleck The Flight of the Cosmic Hippo, which has some pretty intense low frequency bass. This was to get the TRef subs going. The meter on the P20 showed I was using only around 250 W at most, a lot less than I expected. So I went ahead and plugged the TV into the P20, which took me up to a little under 500 W when everything was cranking loud. The P20 can do 2000 W continuous, so it isn’t even breaking a sweat.

That’s the big benefit of Class D amplifiers. The Bel Cantos, 300/600 Wpc (8/4 ohms) each, and the TRefs, 1800 W each, theoretically would melt down the local power grid, but they never use more than a fraction of that in my system. The TRefs are very efficient, so my system pretty much idles along most of the time.

Now….the sound. I gave the system several days to settle down, and WOW! All the usual cable and power cord improvements apply, only more so!

There is much more detail in the highs. This has tightened imaging and the sense of 3D holographic space. Highs are smoother, too. The sound is so much more involving and musical. There is a greater sense of being there, and I hear instrumental details I never noticed before. Sharp transients like rim shots are even sharper and more tightly defined. And, I can hear ultra-small details better than ever. I know, we’ve all heard this before; this is typical of the kind of improvement you hear with cable and power cord upgrades, but the degree of improvement this time around was bigger!

The other big improvement is in bass power, authority, and definition. I notice it the most with kick drums; there’s just a whole lot more bass power there, and the bass is tight and tuneful and well defined.

When I started this exploration of the power side, I didn’t think power cords or conditioners or regenerators would make much of a difference. I have discovered that they do; each step has produced additional improvements, and I think the regenerator was the biggest step of all on the power side. I suspect that my Auralic Vega DAC/Pre is where most of the improvement is happening because I think it has the most marginal power supply. But surely there must be additional improvement in my amps and in the TRefs. I just think it’s likely to be smaller changes there.

So what’s going on here in the world of physics? I think a big part of it is because the P20 has less than 5 milliohms output impedance. So when something needs to draw makeup power, it’s RIGHT THERE. On the other hand, I’ve measured voltage drops on my utility power when I turn on power hungry things. That tells me that there is significant resistance/impedance in the incoming power delivery system. When something needs power and tries to pull it off the grid, the voltage will sag and the component will not get to where it needs to be. This makes for compressed dynamics and distortion.

I think the other aspect is noise reduction. There is probably some noise that gets through the power supplies and rides on the signal. This noise can obscure ultra-fine details in the music.

So the bottom line: The P20 makes a big positive difference in my system. This improvement is probably component dependent, so, as they say, your mileage may vary. Is it worth $10k? It was painful to spend that much money, that’s for sure, but I am very pleased with the result. Whether it’s for you, that’s up to you to decide, but I should add that even without the sonic improvements, for the first time I now have solid protection for my entire system. I don’t have to worry about power transients frying my TRefs anymore.

Charlie
2.0 System: Passport SSD USB > Oppo 105D digital out > Blue Jeans 1694A Digital Coax > DSPeaker Anti-Mode X4 DAC/Pre > Audience Au24 SX RCA interconnects > Bel Canto e.One Ref600M monoblocks > Audience Au24 SX banana speaker cables > Triton References
The following user(s) said Thank You: Moderator, rjohn79395

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • rjohn79395's Avatar Offline school
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 1896
    • Thank you received: 3874
    • Karma: 2
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
rjohn79395 Posted 5 months 3 weeks ago
Last edit: 5 months 3 weeks ago by rjohn79395. info_outline
#26166
Hey, Charlie, thanks for the review of the PS Audio P20! Wow, clean, steady power throughout your system.... I AM jealous! :)

And, WashedUpAudio, great report on the LessLoss C-MARC power cords! I read their literature, another quality power cord maker for sure. And I agree, each power cord exhibits it's own sonic "signature", even different models within brands.

Always new things to think about.... :whistle:

Happy listening!

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, Invisa 525 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 7010
Amps: AT525NC 5 channel, Parasound 275 v.2 stereo
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, SONOS Connect
47" Panasonic 3D smart tv
The following user(s) said Thank You: charliehatch

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Moderator
menu
close
Menu
person_outline
arrow_back