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charliehatch Posted 10 months 3 weeks ago
#29124
Rick, the issue with the power isn't just about voltage level. Mine is pretty constant, too. It's the waveform plus crappola riding on it that creates the problem. (At least that's my understanding.) I think the clipped off waveform shape interferes with the ability of the power supply to recharge itself as quickly as it wants to. That clipped part is caused by demand from switching power supplies up the line, and, because of the clipping, the effective voltage is lower just when power supplies need it for recharge. (Even though the RMS voltage measures OK.) That's where the regenerators help because they take that crappy waveform and make a nice shiny new one that's a perfect sine wave. Power supplies downstream are happier because they can recharge as designed.

Then there's the ultra low output impedance of the regenerator. Frankly, I'm not sure what is the most important here; they're probably both important.

Hopefully that made sense.

Meanwhile, back at the tweaks. I got my set of 4 IsoAcoustic Orea Graphite isolators, which I placed under my DAC/Pre. The weight of my box is close to optimum for the load range of the isolators (they have plots on their website).

There is a difference in the sound, but, as others have said, not as big a difference as the Gaias made for the speakers. The low and mids sound unchanged; no difference in choral sounds. BUT...the highs are different. It's most noticeable on percussion whacks, where the drumhead now sounds more like somebody stretched a skin across it. Very subtle but clear. Piano hammer impacts sound a bit harder (hard to describe this); I can hear more detail in the upper harmonics of piano strings. Also, there's more ambient space detail because the high frequency impulses are better resolved and so more easily heard bouncing off the walls.

So, surprise again, these things do make a difference. I would definitely recommend going with the Gaias on the speakers first, then adding the Oreas to sensitive components.

Now I wonder about my monoblock amps. They're sitting on Isonodes at the moment. Would Oreas help there too? Hmmm...

Charlie

PS. I haven't forgotten the PC to the TV either.
Digital source > multiple boxes and cables that are always changing > Triton Reference speakers
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ArthurDaniels Posted 10 months 3 weeks ago
#29125
Hi Rick and Charlie,

You guys are working on problems which I will probably never experience with my much simpler and much less capable setup.

Fun reading.

Have fun investigating and resolving your subtle issues.

Best,

Art
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rjohn79395 Posted 10 months 3 weeks ago
Last edit: 10 months 2 weeks ago by rjohn79395. info_outline
#29126

Rick, the issue with the power isn't just about voltage level. Mine is pretty constant, too. It's the waveform plus crappola riding on it that creates the problem. (At least that's my understanding.) I think the clipped off waveform shape interferes with the ability of the power supply to recharge itself as quickly as it wants to. That clipped part is caused by demand from switching power supplies up the line, and, because of the clipping, the effective voltage is lower just when power supplies need it for recharge. (Even though the RMS voltage measures OK.) That's where the regenerators help because they take that crappy waveform and make a nice shiny new one that's a perfect sine wave. Power supplies downstream are happier because they can recharge as designed.

Then there's the ultra low output impedance of the regenerator. Frankly, I'm not sure what is the most important here; they're probably both important.

Hopefully that made sense.

Charlie


Hi, Charlie

I totally agree with you on all the above. I somewhat resolved the noise effect by moving a Shunyata Venom Defender to the power strip where the ATi and Parasound amps are plugged in (they lose too much oomph connected to the Furman power conditioner). So I made a band aid change to lessen line noise interference there which apparently got through to the amps via the power strip more than through the Furman's conditioning to the sources plugged in there. The compromise is the additional power limiting via the conditioner that limits higher power users like amps vs. the noise getting through the power strip that has less power limiting AND less noise filtering, which the Defender helped filter better. So a band aid vs. clean, unlimited power for all via a power regenerator. Still looking, deciding what to do there. I do know going the regenerator route would help, a lot. I don't question that one bit. Wish the price tag has less zeroes at the end though.....

Just as a note, the Shunyata Venom Defenders, which provide noise reduction plus surge protection, are the most effective of the three different noise controlling device types I have in place, and of course the priciest at about $225 per. So one each now on the Furman and the power strip.

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, Invisa 525 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 7010
Amps: AT525NC 5 channel, Parasound 275 v.2 stereo
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, Bluesound Node 2i
48" SONY 4K OLED TV
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rjohn79395 Posted 10 months 3 weeks ago
Last edit: 10 months 2 weeks ago by rjohn79395. info_outline
#29127

Hi Rick and Charlie,

You guys are working on problems which I will probably never experience with my much simpler and much less capable setup.

Fun reading.

Have fun investigating and resolving your subtle issues.

Best,

Art


Hi, Art

You have some pretty impressive gear yourself! I wouldn't call it simple I think....

As a fellow experimenter, if you ever wanted to put your toes in the power cord/power/speaker or IC cable water, a fairly inexpensive experiment would be to try something like an Audience Forte F3 power cord on your source, for $150 or so. Some of us have found that that better feed to the source/DAC is the biggest, most cost effective step into these waters.

Just sayin'...

Happy listening!

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, Invisa 525 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 7010
Amps: AT525NC 5 channel, Parasound 275 v.2 stereo
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, Bluesound Node 2i
48" SONY 4K OLED TV
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ArthurDaniels Posted 10 months 3 weeks ago
#29128
Hi Rick,

Thanks for the power cord update suggestion.

Regarding simplicity - since we moved to Raleigh, my listening room's characteristics are very different from what they were in Johnson City. After experimenting with several different combinations, I have pretty much settled on my current setup - which is about as simple as I can get for 2-channel music.

I still use a second AV Receiver to augment the bass when listening at low volume levels. Otherwise, just a 2-channel system.

You guys have fun.

Best,

Art
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charliehatch Posted 10 months 2 weeks ago
#29130
Hi Art!

Good to hear from you again. I'm glad you've settled on a good setup in your new place. And welcome to the pure 2-channel world I live in!

Yes, the low volume bass is different, and I understand why you're using another controllable amp to augment it at low levels. Human hearing is odd that way.

Me, I generally dont' listen at low levels, but finding the right level to match the perceived sound field can be challenging at times.

Hang in there,

Charlie
Digital source > multiple boxes and cables that are always changing > Triton Reference speakers
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