file Knee deep in Snake Oil, or not?

  • WayneWilmeth's Avatar Offline school
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 4581
    • Thank you received: 7022
    • Karma: 15
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
WayneWilmeth Posted 3 years 2 months ago
#20975
Ha ha ha, good one Charlie!!!!
I will look up that flooring. I bet you did not save much money on the Morrow cables!!!
I am looking at them now, which ones do you have? I don't see anything yet that LOOKS particularly different about the wires.
Seems to be a lot about how many runs of SSI wire. Don't know what that is, so will have to read.
Thanks,
God Bless,
Wayne
God bless the child that's got his own.
The following user(s) said Thank You: rjohn79395

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • charliehatch's Avatar Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 520
    • Thank you received: 838
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
charliehatch Posted 3 years 2 months ago
#20976
I had the Elites for both my interconnects from DAQ to amps, and for my speaker cables.

Basically, the Morrows have a large number of individually insulated tiny wires all bundled in some deep magic way. They sound very good, but I have replaced my Elite interconnects with Audience Au24-SX. This was also a change from balanced Elites to RCA Audience. Maybe the difference I heard was going to the single-ended circuitry. Still using the Elites for speaker cables.
PS Audio P20 feeds all components of 2.0 System: Auralic Aries G2> USB > DSPeaker Anti-Mode X4 DAC/Pre > Core Power Diamond XLR interconnects > Bel Canto e.One Ref600M monoblocks > Core Power Diamond banana speaker cables > Triton References > IsoAcoustics Gaia II isolators
The following user(s) said Thank You: WayneWilmeth, rjohn79395

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • rjohn79395's Avatar Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 2229
    • Thank you received: 4203
    • Karma: 2
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
rjohn79395 Posted 3 years 2 months ago
#20978
Hey, Charlie

Thanks for your comments and updates! Have wondered for awhile about whether floor dielectric constants can affect signals in cables, especially after those cables have passed through the "electro magnetic storm" of cables, power cords, interconnects of all those wires near each other emanating from the components. Your thoughts that the effect depends on the floor type makes sense to me, and that cable risers can help minimize that effect.

I have wood floors over a concrete slab. May yet try inverted styrofoam cups and see if I detect any difference.Could always paint them floor wood color as you did! :P

Happy listening!

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, Invisa 525 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 7010
Amps: AT525NC 5 channel, Parasound 275 v.2 stereo
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, Bluesound Node 2i
47" Panasonic 3D smart tv
The following user(s) said Thank You: WayneWilmeth, charliehatch

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • WayneWilmeth's Avatar Offline school
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 4581
    • Thank you received: 7022
    • Karma: 15
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
WayneWilmeth Posted 3 years 2 months ago
#20990
OK, Charlie, I searched and read about your new ICs, the Audience Au4 SX. Nice looking cables!!!! You seem to have made some heavy investment in cable upgrades.
Can I ask a couple of things? Why are they called Au when what I read said they are copper, not gold?
And why would you go from balanced, XLR to unbalanced, RCA? I really perfer balanced myself.
Just interested because you seem to think things through really well and make well informed decisions.
God Bless,
Wayne
God bless the child that's got his own.
The following user(s) said Thank You: rjohn79395

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • charliehatch's Avatar Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 520
    • Thank you received: 838
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
charliehatch Posted 3 years 2 months ago
#20993

WayneWilmeth wrote: Why are they called Au when what I read said they are copper, not gold?
And why would you go from balanced, XLR to unbalanced, RCA?


Hi Wayne, I have no idea why "Au". I presume it's a marketing thing, "These cables are as good as gold," or some such. And, 24 carat at that!

On why going to unbalanced, I had some discussion with the dealer (the same one who sold me my DAC). He highly recommended the Audience cables, and he said that he always used single-ended RCA for two reasons.

1) you really don't really have to worry about noise getting into single-ended on the short runs we typically use for interconnects in our audio systems. Long runs are different.

2) Balanced cables require more complex circuits. You have to split and invert the signal at the driving end (my DAQ also attenuates by half when they do this), and at the receiving end, you have to subtract the two signals to recover the original signal and get rid of common-mode noise. The more complex balanced circuits have more components with more opportunity for signal degradation and component tolerance mismatch.

In my mind, simple usually is better.

So I gave the Audience cables a try, and they were slightly warmer and less veiled than the Morrow Elites and have an amazing level of detail. Was this the cable? Or the difference between balanced and single-ended? I don't know, but I do know I like the sound. A lot.

Yes, I have put money into cables, although by no means as much as some do. I have heard sonic differences all along the way, and I'm convinced that cables are just as important as speakers and amplifiers.

I do plan to eventually try the Audience Au24 SX speaker cables, just to see. At $3k, they're pricey, so it's a back burner thing at the moment.

Charlie
PS Audio P20 feeds all components of 2.0 System: Auralic Aries G2> USB > DSPeaker Anti-Mode X4 DAC/Pre > Core Power Diamond XLR interconnects > Bel Canto e.One Ref600M monoblocks > Core Power Diamond banana speaker cables > Triton References > IsoAcoustics Gaia II isolators
The following user(s) said Thank You: WayneWilmeth, rjohn79395

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • WayneWilmeth's Avatar Offline school
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
    • Posts: 4581
    • Thank you received: 7022
    • Karma: 15
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
WayneWilmeth Posted 3 years 2 months ago
#20994
Thanks for the explanation Charlie, very informative.
So, do you think that between Morrow and Audience you would go for the later across the board?

Your dealer's preference for unbalanced is confusing to me, does not jive with most of the things I have always heard/read. Noise, OK, that is an advantage on long runs only, although with so many cables all crammed together behind my entertainment center, I think balanced MIGHT help a touch? And I do love the solid, dependable connection, not gonna come loose, fall off!!!!
Simpler? I can see that IF somewhere in the system you are unbalanced, then to introduce balanced would make things more complicated. BUT I "think" and I am no expert here, that IF you stay all balanced all the way through, then that would be simpler. The reason I say that is that my amps can accept both balanced and unbalanced inputs, and then go through the tube stages, but one tube is only there for handling the unbalanced input and splitting the signal and making it ready to be handled balanced. So in my system, balanced from my Oppo 95 to my Emotiva XMC-1 to my Vincent hybrid amps it stays balanced all the way and that tube is not even used.
And it is louder, so more headroom, IMHO.
Maybe that is why I am on the snake oil thread???? ha ha
Would love it if some one like you Charlie could compare, side by side, Audience Au24 SX balanced and unbalanced connections.
Oh, well, probably getting beyond the ability of my ears to distinguish.
Have fun with it, God Bless,
Wayne
God bless the child that's got his own.
The following user(s) said Thank You: rjohn79395

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Moderator
menu
close
Menu
person_outline
arrow_back
You are here: Home Forum Advanced Topics DIY, Mods and Tweaks Knee deep in Snake Oil, or not?