file Knee deep in Snake Oil, or not?

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Moderator Posted 3 years 10 months ago
#18319

Timecop wrote: Many of the products mentioned above won't survive blind A/B tests.


In my experience, almost nothing survives a blind A/B test because of the way the human brain operates. Small differences are blended away in the A/B-ing process. Blind A/B is good for catching significant differences (like comparing speakers). If we relied on A/B comparisons for all our audio decision making everyone would be using a Sony Receiver (no offense to Sony intended) and a Radio Shack BluRay player (no offense to the late Radio Shack either).
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WayneWilmeth Posted 3 years 10 months ago
#18320
Thank you Sir, my sentiments exactly^^^^^!!!!!
My whole audiophile wannabe experience has been one of doing the little and affordable upgrades that I can to get them to add up to greatness.
And I may be able to find more, but I feel less than optimistic that my ears will be able to appreciate any further improvements. My system is awesome now, to me!!!! I am grateful for that to the Good Lord above, and to you guys here, and at GoldenEar Tech. I do agree with Timecop and probably all of you that good speakers are the biggest key ingredient in the mix. But all the little things have added up. Well, there were some hard earned $$$ invested too, I have to say.
But I am most likely to spend money these days on Music and Movies, Concerts and such, and much less interested in further investment in equipment.
Now where are my green markers for the rim of my CDs?????
God Bless,
Wayne
God bless the child that's got his own.
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WayneWilmeth Posted 3 years 10 months ago
#18321
Ha ha ha, I need to be faster!!!! My up arrows, ^^^^^ were meant for the post above, but did not get in there in time. But I agree about blind tests too.
I know this blind blues guitar player down on Bourbon St. in New Orleans..............

God Bless,
Wayne
God bless the child that's got his own.
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Timecop Posted 3 years 10 months ago
Last edit: 3 years 10 months ago by Timecop. info_outline
#18322
(mostly in response to the moderators comments)

If the differences aren't significant, then why are we making them? :) If you can't measure the change, and you can't perceive the change (as in a blind A/B test), then how do you know that you've effected any change at all?

A cheap A/V receiver won't send stable power over the entire sound spectrum, nor will it perform consistently during great dynamic peaks/valleys. This is a measurable difference to higher quality components. I've read reviews of cheap bluray players that introduce noticeable artifacts into the picture quality. Saying that there aren't any measurable/perceivable differences in these types of items is a poor generalization.
Triton Two front L/R
SuperSat 50c center
Triton Seven surround L/R
SuperSat 50 surround rear L/R
AVR Marantz sr6005
Amp Marantz mm7025
DAC Fostex HP-A8C
Velodyne optimum 10” sealed, back left corner
Velodyne 8” sealed, front right corner
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Moderator Posted 3 years 10 months ago
#18323
Not going to touch this ... I guess everyone will have to decide who's opinion is more credible. (And you might want to read a few more consumer audio press reviews of inexpensive Blu-Ray players and Receivers before you accuse me of a poor generalization.)

I'm also not going to touch your comments about audio memory either. It would be like trying to describe a color to a blind person. Send an email to one of your favorite high-end audio reviewers and tell them they can't possibly seriously think they are comparing products unless they A/B them and see what kind of response you get... :)
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T Cobe Posted 3 years 10 months ago
#18325
Alright, a couple of quick points to make before I head out the door. We have yet to create a device that can replicate any human sense with the level of detail that we perceive nor a way to process that information the same way our brain does. Just because two pieces of gear measure the same, doesn't mean they will sound the same.

One could say the same about following a recipe. You could have two people cooking the same exact recipe, to the letter, and the results would taste different. A measurement would show that the composition of both entrees are nearly identical, yet you can perceive a difference. Subtle differences do make a difference and some of the reasons behind this are not well known and forget about quantifying perception.

As has been said, a lot of subtle differences do add up. I used to be of the mind that wire is wire until I started doing someA toB comparisons. I can assure you, the differences are there and they are audible. Can you measure them? Not with a piece of gear that has yet to be able to replicate human hearing and how the brain interprets that data. I would suggest keeping an open mind and do some of your own critical listening. Once you take the time to really analyze sound, you can perceive differences in some gear/tweaks. Assigning positive and negative value is an entirely different matter.

Cheers,

T Cobe
Speakers: Triton One L/R, SCXL, Aon 3 Surr/Back, HTR-7000 Height
Pre/Pro/AVR: Anthem AVM 60, Emotiva XSP-1
Amps: Emotiva XPA-5(2), Emotiva XPA-1L (2)
Sources: Oppo BDP-103D, Emotiva ERC-3, PS4, Pioneer PLX-1000 w/Ortofon 2M Bronze
Display: Epson 6030 UB, Elite Screens 110" Sable
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