file Let's Discuss Bass - Music and Movie/Video

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ArthurDaniels Posted 1 year 7 months ago
#23186
I have installed a remote control for the AC Power connection to my two subs. This control allows me to turn the subs off and on from my PLP. I am now listening to orchestral, chamber, solo-instrument and choral music with the subs turned off and the Triton Ones LFE gain control set to about the "2:00 PM" position.

Another interesting bass experiment is underway.

Happy listening,

Art
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Moderator Posted 1 year 7 months ago
#23187

rjohn79395 wrote: Can't speak to how everyone handles bass for music vs action movies, but for me, setting the Ref's and T1's for best music sound with their bass dials, using the large/full range setting in the receiver so that they are getting full range inputs, gives me all the bass I want or need for music, and then running LFE to all the towers, and using the gain settings in the receiver (Ref's and T1's on separate sub outs), to control the amount of bass I dial in for action movies and/or music Blu-rays with .1 channel content, gives me very controllable bass for those effects.


That is exactly the way it is supposed to work in a powered Triton-based system. The only thing preventing that from being everyone's eventual answer is the room the speakers are placed into. The bigger Tritons make tons of bass, I can't tell you how many times I have done demos where people could not believe there wasn't a sub in the room. At the same time, I can't tell you how many times I have walked into a room (or showroom) and the same speakers simply made NO bass. EVERYTHING you guys are talking about, and Art is playing with, have to do with trying to get bass to be supported in the room, and more importantly, in your listening position. This often means room tuning through acoustic treatments (bass traps), room correction EQ systems, and/or additional subwoofers in the room.

It's not the speakers, its the room.
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charliehatch Posted 1 year 7 months ago
#23188

Moderator wrote: ...This often means room tuning through acoustic treatments (bass traps), room correction EQ systems, and/or additional subwoofers in the room.

It's not the speakers, its the room.


I agree, Moderator Dude! An interesting question comes in at this point. Talking about taming room modes, how do different approaches rank in terms of sensitivity? Acoustic treatment, room correction, speaker position, or listener position? (We'll ignore room shape, since that's usually a variable we can't play with.)

I have a sloped ceiling that goes from 12 feet at the back to 8 feet at the front. It probably kills vertical modes (who know about oblique modes), but the front/back room mode sound pressures get quite strong at the front of the room (I think the sound gets concentrated by the sloping ceiling, like an inverse horn). I thought that room treatment might make a big improvement there, so I installed four ATS Acoustic Bass Traps at the front corners of my room. I found that, yes, there was an improvement, but it was relatively small, only a dB or two. This make sense when you realize that the area of absorbers is only a small fraction of the wall area involved in reflecting these modes.

Speaker position seems to also be a weak variable (talking about bass modes here), although it can certainly have a strong effect on imaging.

But I found that listener position is very sensitive in my room. As I said above, a few inches forward or backward make an audible difference in the perceived strength of those modes. I now sit at a compromise position that works well.

I haven't played with room correction, a la Dirac or Anthem. But I do know that all the room correction in the world can't fix a problem if you're sitting at a nodal point (zero amplitude, or close to it) for a particular mode. Position has to be dealt with first to find an acceptable compromise, then apply the room correction. But I do wonder what all that digital filtering correction does to other aspects of the sound quality. You usually can't get something for nothing in this world.

The room problem has always been fascinating to me. Mathematical solutions exist for rectangular rooms, but non-rectangular rooms (like mine) defy simple analysis, so there's a lot of trial and error involved, mixed with some common sense.

Charlie
2.0 System: Passport SSD USB > Auralic Aries G2> USB > DSPeaker Anti-Mode X4 DAC/Pre > Core Power Diamond XLR interconnects > Bel Canto e.One Ref600M monoblocks > Core Power Diamond banana speaker cables > Triton References
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Moderator Posted 1 year 7 months ago
Last edit: 1 year 7 months ago by Moderator. info_outline
#23215

charliehatch wrote:

Moderator wrote: ...This often means room tuning through acoustic treatments (bass traps), room correction EQ systems, and/or additional subwoofers in the room.

It's not the speakers, its the room.

I agree, Moderator Dude! An interesting question comes in at this point. Talking about taming room modes, how do different approaches rank in terms of sensitivity? Acoustic treatment, room correction, speaker position, or listener position?


I am not sure I am the best one to answer that .... but if I was to take a swing at it, I'd probably say adding more subwoofers. I've had good success with room EQ (Anthem ARC in particular) and large bass traps (RealTraps) as well, but multiple subs in multiple locations seems to do the best to smooth out the peaks and valleys in the room response.
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rjohn79395 Posted 1 year 7 months ago
Last edit: 1 year 7 months ago by rjohn79395. info_outline
#23216
Maybe I'm just lucky with my particular room modes and dynamics, but I've had great luck with 4 subs in 4 corners of a non square room (powered Triton towers with LFE connections). A little playing around with speaker position, and I can walk around the room and hear a pretty even bass level throughout. Don't use room correction, but do have small bass traps in the corners.

Another bass head.

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, Invisa 525 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
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Amps: AT525NC 5 channel, Parasound 275 v.2 stereo
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charliehatch Posted 1 year 7 months ago
#23218
Using multiple subwoofers is an interesting approach. Some of the bass modes have maxima at the walls that are out of phase with the other end of the room. So if you drive subwoofers that are naturally in phase at those ends, that will tend to cancel out those modes.

Probably why it smooths out the sound.

I highly recommend Floyd Toole's Sound Reproduction. It has lengthy discussions on room modes and multiple subwoofer placement. It's a great book that covers all aspects of speakers and rooms.

Charlie
2.0 System: Passport SSD USB > Auralic Aries G2> USB > DSPeaker Anti-Mode X4 DAC/Pre > Core Power Diamond XLR interconnects > Bel Canto e.One Ref600M monoblocks > Core Power Diamond banana speaker cables > Triton References
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