file Let's Discuss Bass - Music and Movie/Video

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ArthurDaniels Posted 2 years 4 months ago
#23506
Wayne, Logic is as follows:

1. Audio-only system. No processing of LFE signals derived from movie soundtracks.

2. I listened to bass from several musical sources through the Triton Ones with the external subs turned off. I wanted the augmented bass from the subs to have the same musical sound when they are active.

3. Again, for music only, consider: A above middle C is 440 hz. Middle C is about 262 hz. A below middle C is 220 hz. C below middle C is about 131 hz. A 2 octaves below "440 A" is 110 hz. These lower tones are now within the range of my subs.

4. I matched the CXR120 bass crossover to the subs as closely as possible.

5. I eliminated "competing crossovers" between the subs and the amp.

The audible change is very noticeable - much more musical.

Best,

Art
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charliehatch Posted 2 years 4 months ago
#23507
Art, you might consider reducing the corner on your sub to see how it sounds. The filter cutoffs are not sharp, and the overlap may create a response hump in that neighborhood.

When I was doing those experiments I found I had a more natural, better blended sound when the two corners were separated some.

I was using around 80 Hz as my target, but your mileage no doubt varies!

Charlie
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charliehatch Posted 2 years 4 months ago
#23509
Art,

There's yet another way to have fun with sub and main crossovers. Say you have a really annoying room mode (boomy) at some frequency, say 90 Hz (just to pick a number). You can set your mains with a crossover at maybe 110 Hz and your sub at something like 70 Hz, and you will create a dip in your speaker responses that cancels out the boom in the room mode.

The actual frequencies to use will depend on how fast the filters roll off. I actually did this once and killed a really annoying room mode.

This stuff can be fun...

Charlie
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ArthurDaniels Posted 2 years 4 months ago
Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by ArthurDaniels. info_outline
#23511
Hi Charlie,

I don't know what you mean by "reduce the corners on the subs". What are "corners".

Regarding your other thoughts - my situation is probably fundamentally different. I am only using the external subs at low room volume - low enough that my Triton Ones do not exhibit much bass. By driving the subs with a separate Amp, I can independently adjust the volume level of the subs. So, I don't have noticeable competition between the subs and the Triton Ones bass section.

I am finding these settings to be very satisfactory for musical bass at low room volumes. The two external subs sit in the front, next to my Tritons and are about 6 feet apart. I have the subs individual volume levels set to about the 9:00 position. This setting avoids any boomy sound from the subs.

I turn the subs off when I turn up the volume to the point where the Tritons provide adequate bass. I also turn the subs off at low volumes if my music has little bass content (a capella choral, for example).

Of course, I don't know what is happening inside the Tritons regarding bass hand off and crossover points, but I'll venture a guess that, based upon what I am hearing, my sub and crossover settings are achieving a reasonable approximation because the musical sounds are very similar.

Best,

Art
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charliehatch Posted 2 years 4 months ago
#23512

ArthurDaniels wrote: Hi Charlie,

I don't know what you mean by "reduce the corners on the subs". What are "corners".

Regarding your other thoughts - my situation is probably fundamentally different. I am only using the external subs at low room volume - low enough that my Triton Ones do not exhibit much bass. By driving the subs with a separate Amp, I can independently adjust the volume level of the subs. So, I don't have noticeable competition between the subs and the Triton Ones bass section.

I am finding these settings to be very satisfactory for musical bass at low room volumes. The two external subs sit in the front, next to my Tritons and are about 6 feet apart. I have the subs individual volume levels set to about the 9:00 position. This setting avoids any boomy sound from the subs.

I turn the subs off when I turn up the volume to the point where the Tritons provide adequate bass. I also turn the subs off at low volumes if my music has little bass content (a capella choral, for example).

Of course, I don't know what is happening inside the Tritons regarding bass hand off and crossover points, but I'll venture a guess that, based upon what I am hearing, my sub and crossover settings are achieving a reasonable approximation because the musical sounds are very similar.

Best,

Art


Art, it sounds like (no pun intended) you have a good arrangement there.

Sorry, what I meant by "corner" is the corner frequency of the low- or high-pass filters in the crossovers. The main amp and main speakers play frequencies above their high-pass filter corner; the subs play frequencies below their low-pass filter corner. So, by varying the crossover frequencies independently you could create a dip in response that would decrease the amplitude of a room mode in that dip. Sounds like this isn't a problem for you anyway.

Charlie
PS Audio P20 feeds all components of 2.0 System: Auralic Aries G2> Coax > DSPeaker Anti-Mode X4 DAC/Pre > Core Power Diamond XLR interconnects > Bel Canto e.One Ref600M monoblocks > Core Power Diamond banana speaker cables > Triton References
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ArthurDaniels Posted 2 years 4 months ago
#23514
Hi Charlie,

Thanks - I had not heard the filter cut-off points referred to as "corners". I do understand filter concepts. In fact, while I was conducting my listening tests, I was surprised to learn that the filters in my subs and amp were as sharp as they appear to be.

The 30 hz pipe organ tone that you hear at the beginning of Also Sprach Zarathustra (2001 a Space Odyssey) is is 3 octaves below Middle C and is a good test for really low bass tonality.

When I conducted my listening tests, I was surprised at how much more musical my subs became when I set all of the low-pass cutoff frequencies to their highest points.

Here is another interesting point. I am feeding the LFE signals from my movie sound system to the LFE inputs on my Triton Ones. With my Triton One LFE controls set to the 1:00 position for pleasing musical support, I found that there was far too much bass when using the Ones' bass sections for movie LFE. I have the sub-woofer level in my movie 7.1 amp set to -10 db and there is still plenty of LFE bass when we watch a movie.

I think my funny approach reveals why it may be difficult to achieve both musical bass and pleasing movie LFE bass from a single multi-channel amp setup.

I am firmly convinced that mixing movie and music sounds in the same setup is at best a possibly-acceptable compromise.

Art
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