file Let's Discuss Bass - Music and Movie/Video

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charliehatch Posted 1 year 10 months ago
#23516

ArthurDaniels wrote: Hi Charlie,

Thanks - I had not heard the filter cut-off points referred to as "corners". I do understand filter concepts. In fact, while I was conducting my listening tests, I was surprised to learn that the filters in my subs and amp were as sharp as they appear to be.

The 30 hz pipe organ tone that you hear at the beginning of Also Sprach Zarathustra (2001 a Space Odyssey) is is 3 octaves below Middle C and is a good test for really low bass tonality.

When I conducted my listening tests, I was surprised at how much more musical my subs became when I set all of the low-pass cutoff frequencies to their highest points.

Here is another interesting point. I am feeding the LFE signals from my movie sound system to the LFE inputs on my Triton Ones. With my Triton One LFE controls set to the 1:00 position for pleasing musical support, I found that there was far too much bass when using the Ones' bass sections for movie LFE. I have the sub-woofer level in my movie 7.1 amp set to -10 db and there is still plenty of LFE bass when we watch a movie.

I think my funny approach reveals why it may be difficult to achieve both musical bass and pleasing movie LFE bass from a single multi-channel amp setup.

I am firmly convinced that mixing movie and music sounds in the same setup is at best a possibly-acceptable compromise.

Art


I think they're called corner frequencies because when you plot the filter characteristic on plot of vertical amplitude versus horizontal frequency (log frequency scale) the response is usually a flat straight line until you reach the cutoff (corner) frequency, then it turns a corner and goes slanting down in a straight line.

I like the flexibility of your approach, and I think you're right about it being a compromise. Since I just do 2.0, I have things tuned for music and just let movies go where they may. Frankly, after blowing two different subwoofers (with non GET speakers), I am really gun shy about trying to make really loud low frequency noises in my system. Even so, my TRefs combined with low organ notes create some amazing sensations.

Charlie
PS Audio P20 feeds all components of 2.0 System: Auralic Aries G2> Coax > DSPeaker Anti-Mode X4 DAC/Pre > Core Power Diamond XLR interconnects > Bel Canto e.One Ref600M monoblocks > Core Power Diamond banana speaker cables > Triton References
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ArthurDaniels Posted 1 year 10 months ago
#23517
Charlie,

That 30 hz low C tone should be felt as well as heard. I can feel it in my tile-over-concrete slab floor with my Ones. I can imagine that your Refs reach a little bit deeper.

Before I split my movie and music systems, I was never happy with my compromised setups. Like you, music is my reason for having this gear. My "6.2" plus separate center channel amp movie setup is satisfactory and rumbles when necessary.

If I ultimately am able to step up to the References, then my Ones will move to the Surround position and my Sevens will move to the Rear Surround position. The SuperSat 3s will not have a home and will be saved for a possible future use as Movie Fronts is my old Altecs ever die.

But, that problem is for the future. Sheryl will be having a round of chemo to shrink her thymoma, starting in about two weeks, then followed by surgery to remove the hopefully-much-shrunken thymoma. After she is fully recovered, I'll think about the Refs again.

Best,

Art
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rjohn79395 Posted 1 year 10 months ago
Last edit: 1 year 10 months ago by rjohn79395. info_outline
#23519

ArthurDaniels wrote:
I am firmly convinced that mixing movie and music sounds in the same setup is at best a possibly-acceptable compromise.

Art


Hi, Art

I will agree that, when using a customized set-up, where external subs are used to supplement 2.0 channel music, finding a suitable compromise between bass settings for the subs for 2 channel music and movies would be a challenge.

Gotta say, again, that setting my Ref and T1's as full range, adjusting their bass dials for best music sound, and using the LFE/sub channels to the Ref's and 1's for .1/LFE effects only gives me ALL the bass I want for 2.0 music without LFE help, and ALL the bass I want for movies, and I don't have to make any adjustments going back and forth. I am totally and completely satisfied with bass, musicality in either 2.0 channel music or .1 HT mode. I don't find it be a compromise at all.

(Still wonder some, Art, if the Ref's all by themselves wouldn't do what you're looking to do with external sub help at lower music SL's??? :) ).

Happy listening!

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, Invisa 525 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 7010
Amps: AT525NC 5 channel, Parasound 275 v.2 stereo
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, Bluesound Node 2i
47" Panasonic 3D smart tv
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ArthurDaniels Posted 1 year 10 months ago
#23522
(Still wonder some, Art, if the Ref's all by themselves wouldn't do what you're looking to do with external sub help at lower music SL's??? :) ).

Happy listening!

Rick[/quote]

Hi Rick,

I have wondered the same thing about adding the Refs as Fronts and moving the Ones to the Rear. In my case, I would experiment with the Ones as "B" Speakers driven by my 851A Stereo Amp. Perhaps, with the combination, there would be ample bass at low volume levels.

If that happy day arrives and the Refs join the Ones, then, if bass were ample, I would probably use the external subs for movie bass. The Ones would move to the rear of the room and either be connected as "B" Speakers to the 851 or wind up as Surrounds connected to the CXR120.

Until that day, I am very content with my present arrangement and the flexibility it affords.

Best,

Art
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rjohn79395 Posted 1 year 10 months ago
#23523
Hi, Art

IF that happy day arrives where you add Ref's to your system, I think you'd find that the same system can provide BOTH great music and movie support. I can't imagine not using my system for HT duty as well (it is awesome!). Even thinking about NOT using all the GEt's for HT would give me nightmares. :lol:

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, Invisa 525 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 7010
Amps: AT525NC 5 channel, Parasound 275 v.2 stereo
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, Bluesound Node 2i
47" Panasonic 3D smart tv
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ArthurDaniels Posted 1 year 10 months ago
#23524
Rick,

Possibly, but probably not likely. In fact, it is not at all clear to me that I can get $8500.00 worth of additional pleasure from adding Refs and relegating my Ones to a support role.

We'll see when the time comes for such considerations.

Best,

Art
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