file Let's Discuss Bass - Music and Movie/Video

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ArthurDaniels Posted 1 year 6 months ago
#23736
Just when I thought it was safe to quit experimenting with my gear....................

I had a failure in my phono preamp. While conducting tests to isolate the failure to the preamp, I needed to use the Record Line Out on my Cambridge 851A to evaluate the preamp. This meant disconnecting the Record Line Out from my Chase RLC-1 Line Controller - which disabled my Triton Ones augmented bass setup.

After confirming the preamp failure and dealing with obtaining a replacement unit, I considered the possibility of moving the Chase unit to the Record Out from my Cambridge CXR120. After moving the Chase unit to the CXR120 Record Out, I decided to listen to the augmented bass alone (I could mute the 851A Amp speakers while driving the Triton Ones LFE inputs with the CXR120 through the Chase.).

After listening to a thumpy bass from a Brubeck Quartet piece, I activated the Triton Ones via the 851A Amp. To my surprise, the character of the bass sound changed considerably. In fact, the combined bass (the dreaded Double Bass) was less emphatic than the bass from either the 851A alone or the CXR120 alone. I realize that driving the Triton Ones from two different amp sources might produce unexpected and surprising results -- and it certainly seems to have done so in this configuration.

After some thought, I have decided to leave the Chase unit connected to the CXR120. Therefore, to avoid the funky bass results, I have connected the Chase to my Paradigm DSP 3400 Sub, rather than to the Triton Ones LFE inputs. I have been playing with the Paradigm's settings in an attempt to balance the sound when I augment the bass. I want the Paradigm to provide a bit of smooth bass boost when needed - particularly when listening at low volumes. It is proving to be tricky to "voice" the Paradigm unit to match the Ones natural bass sound.

Currently, I am running the LFE controls on the Triton Ones at the 3:00 position to reduce the need for any bass augmentation. This rather high setting can produce too much bass on some recordings at higher listening levels. If I can actually balance the Paradigm Sub to the Tritons, I may be able to reduce the Ones LFE controls a bit.

In an earlier post in this thread, Rick mentioned the possibility of adjusting the Ones LFE level for different listening situations, rather than augmenting the bass. I can see the advantage of this approach, but with manual controls, it is a bit of a pain to continually adjust the Ones LFE controls.

I wonder if GE has considered the possible advantage of easily adjustable LFE controls via a remote for them? For those of us who listen to a lot of music and at variable overall volume levels, being able to remotely match the bass to the volume level would be a really nice feature.

Anyway, on we go..............

Happy Listening,

Art
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charliehatch Posted 1 year 6 months ago
#23741

ArthurDaniels wrote: ...the combined bass (the dreaded Double Bass) was less emphatic than the bass from either the 851A alone or the CXR120 alone. I realize that driving the Triton Ones from two different amp sources might produce unexpected and surprising results -- and it certainly seems to have done so in this configuration.


Hi Art,

It's possible that one of your units is inverting the signal, which would make the two sources out of phase and cause partial cancellation. You might try reversing the wiring and see if that makes thing act more like what you expect.

Charlie
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ArthurDaniels Posted 1 year 6 months ago
#23747
Hi Charlie,

Thanks for your suggestion. However, I am puzzled as to how I would "reverse the wiring". The connections to the LFE inputs are via RCA cables. I can connect either the Paradigm or the Tritons LFE inputs to either the CXR120 or the 851A Record Outs - either through the Chase or without the Chase. What are you suggesting that I change in order to reverse the wiring?

Thanks,

Art
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charliehatch Posted 1 year 6 months ago
#23750
I was thinking of switching the plus/minus polarity at one of the connections like you would with a speaker wire connection, but if you're RCA or other connectors all the way, that's not easy. If one of the units has a polarity switch, that would do it. But the only thing I've seen that on was a subwoofer I had.

Charlie
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ArthurDaniels Posted 1 year 6 months ago
#23762
Hi Charlie,

My Paradigm Sub has a continuously-variable 180 degree phase control. I'll see if there is any impact from applying different settings of that control. If I can notice a difference, it might mean that the signals from the CXR120 are to some degree out of phase with the signals from the 851A.

This whole business of trying to achieve the most natural bass sound is a bit frustrating (but interesting as well). It does seem clear to me that, when compared to musical bass sounds emanating from either of my external subs, the musical bass quality of the Triton Ones' sub section is superior. I might revert to augmenting the Triton Ones' sub sections, just to preserve the musical quality of the bass.

Best,

Art
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charliehatch Posted 1 year 6 months ago
#23763
Yes, that's what I was thinking, a phase problem. Continuously variable phase! That should be some interesting experimenting!

Charlie
2.0 System: Passport SSD USB > Auralic Aries G2> USB > DSPeaker Anti-Mode X4 DAC/Pre > Core Power Diamond XLR interconnects > Bel Canto e.One Ref600M monoblocks > Core Power Diamond banana speaker cables > Triton References
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