file Crossover and AVR settings

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MrTriton Posted 7 months 3 weeks ago
#30316
Hi,

I have a 7.2 GE based HT system with Triton Refs for the fronts, Center Ref, and BRX for the surrounds, and SuperSat 50s for the Surround Back.

I am now trying to optimise the AVR settings. So my first question would be about the LFE crossover frequencies for each of them. For some like the SuperSat, the manual says 100-120 hz while for the BRX or the center I do not really know. For me, it would be logical to assume that the BRX can go lower than the SuberSat.

2. I can either set the Front speakers in the AVR to small (then, everything below the LFE freq goes to the LFE channel) or I set them to large but then I need to set "LFE+Main", otherwise there is no bass except for movies that have the dedicated LFE channel. Would you prefer one thing over the other?

3. I am wondering whether I want to use Audysee dynamic volume. (some say I should, other say to turn it off). Anyone has experiences there what is recommended? While listening to dialogue, I find it useful but I hate the exaggerated bass. (even in light mode)

4. BBC dip in the Audysee curve. Did you enable or disable midrange compensation?

Thanks
KR
Chris

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rjohn79395 Posted 7 months 3 weeks ago
Last edit: 7 months 3 weeks ago by rjohn79395. info_outline
#30319
Hi, Chris

Some thoughts on your questions.

Re crossovers for the BRX's and SC Ref, they can easily handle an 80 Hz crossover. I have tried 60-80 Hz with my SC Ref, and it plays both easily. I just like the bass balance with the T Ref's better at 80 Hz. You can try whatever you like.

Re the T Ref settings, I presume you have LFE leads from the sub out(s) to them when you reference LFE feeds. I have mine with LFE feeds also, and set them as large, sub on. Those Ref's bass capabilities are completely capable of playing the lower frequencies with plenty of slam. With this setting, they are fed all the bass from the front channel feeds plus the lower frequencies under the crossovers from your other speakers, and they do a great job of this. I love how they sound with lots of dynamics and bass support. I.E. set as large they receive all bass for those chanels plus bass routed to them via the sub on and LFE leads. (The LFE channel goes to fronts set as large if there is no sub on setting, and all bass under the crossover if fronts are set as small has to be routed to the LFE channel, there is no other place for it to go.) Setting LFE plus main with T Ref's set as large doubles up the bass,sending it all through both channels, is hence called double bass, and can get muddy and bloated. I don't recommend this setting. Try starting out with the T Ref's as large, sub on, so that LFE bass from surround is also sent there. I am amazed at the bass slam the T Ref's have for everything from 2 channel to full surround with supplemental LFE.

Re Audyssey, I have tried with and without and prefer without. Your choice with your receiver. Didn't like dynamic control either.

Hope this helps a bit, your call on what sounds best to you.

Happy listening!

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, HTR 8000 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 8015
Amp: AT525NC 5 channel
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, Bluesound Node 2i, Apple tv 4K streamer
48" SONY 4K OLED TV

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rjohn79395 Posted 7 months 3 weeks ago
Last edit: 7 months 3 weeks ago by rjohn79395. info_outline
#30321
One aside why the recommended set up for powered Tritons 2+ and up is large, sub on with LFE feeds even though IN THEORY if sub off is set instead, all the LFE signal should go to the front mains set as large.

When the Triton 2's first were introduced, Sandy's set up tips recommended setting as just that, large with sub off unless an external sub was also used. And that's how I set up my original T2 based GoldenEar surround system being fed by a NAD T757 receiver. The bass on movies was not impressive, so I tried adding LFE leads, switched to sub on, still large for the T2's. And the bass emerged!!!!

After a number of posts back and forth with this forum, it was thought by the Moderator that some receivers rolled off LFE feeds directed at the front channels, probably mostly to protect their own front main amps from being over stressed, maybe also to protect front speakers of unknown capabilities. To my knowledge, it isn't well known which receivers do roll off LFE bass to fronts and by how much. Some do, probably not all. In any case, at some point the recommendation in Sandy's set up tips changed to using large settings for powered Tritons, with LFE feed and sub on, probably "in case anyone's receiver did roll off LFE feeds". (None do if sub out is used, because then it's an external amp that will power those channels.

So I have used that setting for my fronts ever since. Never tried using sub off with the receiver I have now, a Marantz SR 7010, and I use pre-outs anyway to a five channel amp for the fronts, center and surrounds, but for sure it wouldn't be better so I have no motivation to try. Plus with sub on I can feed LFE to the T1 surrounds also, set as large

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, HTR 8000 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 8015
Amp: AT525NC 5 channel
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, Bluesound Node 2i, Apple tv 4K streamer
48" SONY 4K OLED TV
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MrTriton Posted 7 months 3 weeks ago
#30323
Hi,

ok, thanks a lot for the detailed answer....
Makes sense, I will then only go with "LFE", not "LFE+Main" and set the crossover frequencies lower.
Sub = on, overall LFE low pass filter at 80 Hz. (Here, I am not sure what happens if I have the crossover frequency for the BRX set at 60 Hz. Will it then basically send everything below 80Hz to the LFE or for the BRX only below 60Hz....)

With dynamic volume enabled, it is easier to understand dialogue in movies but what drives me crazy is that when I lower the volume, nothing really happens because this feature is counter-acting the volume decrease. I guess I will disable it...

What I also noticed is that my Marantz AVR only support Audyseey MultiEQ XT and not 32. When I look at the "before" and "after" curve, it is not really doing much in the bass area, so overall not very useful. Should have bought an AVR with a better calibration tool. (dirac or the one from Anthem)

I have PS Audio Stellar M700 as power amps for my T Refs which are connected to a BHK preamp which then connect to the pre outs of the AVR. But this is only for the front speakers, the other ones are connected directly with the AVR.
Maybe it is worth buying a processor and then a separate power amp like from Emotiva.

Thx
Chris

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rjohn79395 Posted 7 months 3 weeks ago
Last edit: 7 months 3 weeks ago by rjohn79395. info_outline
#30324
Hi Chris

Re low pass filter settings for sub on, a pretty typical setting is 120 Hz. That's where I have mine set.

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, HTR 8000 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 8015
Amp: AT525NC 5 channel
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, Bluesound Node 2i, Apple tv 4K streamer
48" SONY 4K OLED TV

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rjohn79395 Posted 7 months 3 weeks ago
Last edit: 7 months 3 weeks ago by rjohn79395. info_outline
#30325

Hi,

Makes sense, I will then only go with "LFE", not "LFE+Main" and set the crossover frequencies lower.
Sub = on, overall LFE low pass filter at 80 Hz. (Here, I am not sure what happens if I have the crossover frequency for the BRX set at 60 Hz. Will it then basically send everything below 80Hz to the LFE or for the BRX only below 60Hz....)

Thx
Chris

Hi Chris

The low pass filter for the LFE channel sends 100% of the frequencies in the signal sent to it at it's frequency setting and under to the channel, and rolls off frequencies above that setting. Setting the crossovers for each channel set as small then determines what frequencies and down will be sent to for instance the LFE channel. So when you set some channels like center or surrounds to frequencies lower than the low pass filter for the receiving LFE channel, only the frequencies under the crossover for each channel (with some roll off of higher frequencies) go to the LFE channel from that speaker channel. I.E. for a channel with a 60 HZ crossover, it will send 60 HZ and under to LFE.

Hope that helps.

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, HTR 8000 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 8015
Amp: AT525NC 5 channel
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, Bluesound Node 2i, Apple tv 4K streamer
48" SONY 4K OLED TV

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