file Essentially No Bass through my Triton 1's/PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium

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WayneWilmeth Posted 2 years 2 months ago
#19925
Thanks for the good report Gus and good for you Sir!!!!
I am very happy you found the problem(s) and that you got good support!!!
It sounds like you are not finished, I am sure you can get even better bass than you are now with a little bit of experimentation, moving your speakers a bit might help, working with getting them dialed in better, perhaps other tubes like the KT 88s, etc.
There are a lot of things you can do, lots of variables. It is a game and you are the winner IF you are enjoying the sound you have now and the struggle to perfect it further.
Sounds like you do/are.
You have great equipment there Gus, I am certain you will get great, exceptional results. FAR better than the average Joe gets to enjoy even in a good system.
I keep using the word GREAT, and I mean it, you will have a great system/sound.
What I learned: I am not gonna buy that Art Garfunkel album. Glad the PS Audio P3 makes that much improvement for you.
I would have thought that KT 88s would be more likely to be brighter sounding than EL34s, but different tubes from different manufacturers, even the same spec but in different amps can give surprisingly differing results. The UL mode on your PL may? be giving some of that harshness/brightness. Turn it off and you will likely get a more soft, rounded sound. (sorry, just guessing here Gus, that is the case with SOME amps I have heard/experienced, but yours could be VERY different).
That Peter Paul and Mary album is one of the first I ever owned. Heard them live in Lincoln, Nebraska. Mary=WOW!!!! She did not need a microphone at all, in a VERY large venue. Mercy the talent of those 3!!!!
Happy listening,
God Bless,
Wayne
God bless the child that's got his own.
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ArthurDaniels Posted 2 years 2 months ago
#19926

Moderator wrote: We are hearing more reports lately of considerable sonic improvements using the 4 Ohm taps on amplifiers with options for different impedance speaker output taps.


I believe that I can add to the Moderator's comments regarding 4 ohm impedance. I am driving a pair of Triton Ones from my "A" speaker taps and a pair of Triton Sevens from my "B" speaker taps on my Cambridge 851A Stereo Amp.

The speaker outputs on the Cambridge are nominally 8 ohms and although the Cambridge manual called for speakers nominally rated at 16 ohms if they were to be connected to the "A" and "B" taps , I confirmed with Cambridge technical support people, that I could safely connect these two speaker pairs to the "A" and "B" speaker outputs. The amplifier nominally sees a 4 ohm load with these two speaker pairs active.

I recently evaluate a passive impedance-matching speaker control unit in this arrangement. The Tritons sounded "dull and flat" with this unit in the speaker lines.

In the "4 ohm configuration" however, the Tritons sound full and brilliant, whether or not I listen to each pair separately or both pairs together.

So long as the amplifier is not driven into distortion by the lower impedance load, this approach should be perfectly safe.

Best,

Art
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RS1506 Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Last edit: 2 years 2 months ago by RS1506. Reason: typo info_outline
#19927
Hi Art,

Thank you very much for your suggestions. They would have certainly put me on the right track if I didn't hear from Craig at UA. And yes, I finally remembered I have a Stereophile test cd! Duh! After doing all of the mentioned changes, the first track I played was the first three on the test cd where John Atkinson (he's a bass player too) thumbs a bass note on his fender bass in left, right, out of phase both channels and in phase, both channels. I about jumped out of my chair on the first note! So I knew then the Dialogue is in good stead and it was my setup that was flawed. Since then I have listened with a newfound wonder of how perfectly the T1's and PLD are suited for each other. Most bass selections, especially electric bass pieces, literally rumble the inside of my chest now. Even with the SS marantz PM8005, the PLD's predecessor, I felt the rumble too, but with the PLD, the rumble seems to be deeper and more consistent but not discomforting... actually soothing and perhaps even evoking a sort of satisfaction, since I am a bassist (electric fretted and fretless only.. don't have the skill for an upright). These sensations were not something I was prepared for and put a smile on my face that stretched ear to ear. :)

I have read that the PrimaLuna EL34's aren't as good of a bass-head tube compared to the KT88's, KT120's or especially the KT150's from Tung Sol. But now that my setup has been "fixed" ("broken" only because of my being a newbie to toobs) I am quite impressed with the bass. But as I mentioned, on a few recordings the mids are a bit overly bright, but I'm not ready to start tube rolling right now. A quad of KT150's from UA is over $400 (the KT120 a more wallet friendly $200, $232 with cryo treatment). Plus I like to be able to keep the cage on for protection. Craig at UA says they have been rolling tubes in the PrimaLuna line for years and the KT150's shine compared 88's and 120's. Although a bit more expensive, there are virtually no "losses" throughout the bandwidth top to bottom going from the EL34's to the KT150's. The same cannot be said about the 88's or 120's. However, I am sure the 88's would fit and perhaps the 120's as well, with the cage in place. Any input from the community on this topic would be apprecited. I have more research to do as I tweak my Toob sound, but man, am I having fun now!
Thank again for your input Art,
best
Gus
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ArthurDaniels Posted 2 years 2 months ago
#19929
Hi Gus,

Glad to learn that you are making progress and that you are now enjoying the chase. I believe you will find that many of the forum regulars are also having fun pursuing audio nirvana.

I have a Stereophile Test CD, Volume 1. It is apparently different from yours - my initial tracks are a 1 khz test tone, followed by left/right channel identification and phasing, featuring "Ralph the Audio Dog". The last 15 or so tracks are test tones.

I have enjoyed reading your tube comments - especially those comments related to the costs of the tubes themselves. I am old enough to have owned tube radios, TVs and mono and stereo amps. I don't miss them at all. Enjoy your tube units and I'll enjoy my solid state devices.

Happy listening,

Art
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RS1506 Posted 2 years 2 months ago
Last edit: 2 years 2 months ago by RS1506. info_outline
#19936
Hi Art,

My test cd is the Editors Choice. A compilation of John Atkinson's favorite tracks. First published in 2003 but to me, brand new.
I have been an SS guy for years... but a true audiophile for only a couple since I got my T1's in May of 2015. Since then I have enjoying all that I have missed, and NOT enjoying some horrible recordings that show their pedigree when played on a high-quality system.

I took the plunge into toobs because of a good deal I got on my PrimaLuna Dialogue. I did a lot of research (I was on vacation at and spent hours on the subject before pulling the trigger) and watch carefully Kevin Deals tutorial vids on the Upscale Audio youtube channel. I don't think I would have gone for it if there were constant bias adjustments (The PLD has auto bias control) and if there was a risk of failure (PL has an excellent rep for longevity and solid build quality.. again, watch Kevins video's..)

I'm not much younger than you....I can relate to the simplicity and performance of SS gear as it was all I trusted. I've had Kenwood (KR4400), Yamaha and most recently, a Marantz PM8005 (wonderful amp, powerful, drove my T1's with precision and authority for about 60 hours... and it's for sale if anyone is interested). I then purchased the PM7005 as I came into possessing over 1Tb of digital audio files from a friends brother who is an avid audiophile. (He has a set of speakers that cost as much as a new Corvette when new, but he never pays that.. he's a smart shopper) The PM7005 is nearly as good and the DAC works well. So SS has always been good to me, but I wondered over the last year or so if I was missing anything... I was! I'm sure a high-end SS integrated or separates combo would sound amazing, but the PLD is a noteworthy entry into the toober world. It wasn't cheap, but I am very very happy with my purchase. It has about 1000 hours on it. The PO treated it like gold.. I think he even has some sellers remorse. He packed it with such care, I thought I was getting a brand new Dialogue. Absolutely pristine.. not scratches, dents, nicks anywhere, even the remote. I save about $700 off of a new one and he broke in the tubes quite nicely for me.

I may eventually try KT88's or KT120 but overall, I am quite pleased and look forward to many hours of listening to my PLD/Triton 1/Cabridge Azure C651 (I think) combo. (VPI classic 3/Avid Pulsus phono preamp on the vinyl side of things)

I just received the near mint, sealed Art Garfunkel "Breakaway" LP I found on eBay. It is, in fact, sealed. I plan on doing a side by side test play, alternating between the cd and lp. I did the same thing with the best of the Guess Who... the CD is horrible and inconsistent.. the LP sounds "real" in comparison. Very linear. It is my Second Best of Guess who LP. The first one, purchased from acoustic sounds, had too many "ticks", in which case, ONE is too many! I sent it back and they refunded my purchase price. 3 months later, they sent me another. No charge. Must better quality.. nearly tick free. I guess to woo me back... it worked. I purchase a few odd albums over the weekend that I look forward to sampling once I clean them.

Thanks again for the input Art.
Happy listening.
Gus
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