file Bass Management Tests and Results With Triton Ones

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ArthurDaniels Posted 4 years 7 months ago
#9165
Question for GE Moderator:

For the Triton Ones: When the LF control on the speaker is set to Minimum, what is the status of the LF Amplifier in the speaker? Does the Minimum setting simply mean no bass boost above an established reference level of amplification?

It appears that, with the control set to Minimum, there is still LF amplification present. So, my question relates to whether or not there is a reference setting for the control and, if so, what is that setting?

Other comments about the LF amplifier's performance at Minimum control setting would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Art
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Moderator Posted 4 years 7 months ago
#9168

ArthurDaniels wrote: Question for GE Moderator:

For the Triton Ones: When the LF control on the speaker is set to Minimum, what is the status of the LF Amplifier in the speaker? Does the Minimum setting simply mean no bass boost above an established reference level of amplification?

It appears that, with the control set to Minimum, there is still LF amplification present. So, my question relates to whether or not there is a reference setting for the control and, if so, what is that setting?

Other comments about the LF amplifier's performance at Minimum control setting would be appreciated.


If I understand the questions, the control on the back to a Triton One (or any Triton or ForceField model) is simply a volume control for the woofer. At minimum setting there should be very little to no output from the woofers. At 12:00 position, where the detent is, that's where it's flat. Above 12:00 is louder than flat. What measures flat for us undoubtedly is different from any other room so adjust this volume setting to your preference. I suggest you start with the 12:00 position and adjust up or down from there.

Even with the speaker's volume control set to minimum, its amp will power up when input signal with bass content is present.
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ArthurDaniels Posted 4 years 7 months ago
#9170
Mr. Moderator,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, you did understand my question correctly. Your comment that there should be little to no output from the woofers with the LF control set to Minimum is very interesting. I will double-check my experimental results (mentioned in my original post in this thread), in which I heard considerable analog bass from the Triton One with the speaker wires disconnected, the LF cable connected, and the LF control set to Minimum. If the woofers are essentially silent at a Minimum setting, then the bass I was hearing must have been coming from other speakers in the Triton. I will repeat my experiment and report back in detail so that you can comment further on my findings.

Best,

Art
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ArthurDaniels Posted 4 years 7 months ago
#9182
June 28, 2015: Triton One Bass Response Experiment

Equipment in use:

1. Triton One Speakers
2. Onkyo NR 3009 AV Receiver
3. Sony CD/DVD Single Player

Equipment Settings:

1. Onkyo NR 3009 set for Pure Direct Audio with Double Bass set to OFF. Onkyo Analog Direct Subwoofer toggled between ON and OFF during tests (Reference: Page 57 in Onkyo NR 3009 Manual).
2. Sony CD/DVD Player used to play Stereophile Audio Test CD with various bass tones.

Tests One, Two & Three Connections in use:

1. Triton One L/R speaker cables – not connected
2. Triton One L/R LFE inputs – connected to Onkyo NR 3009 Sub Woofers One and Two Outputs
3. Sony CD/DVD Single Player connected to Onkyo NR 3009 via analog RCA Stereo Cable.

Tests One, Two & Three Methods, Observations and Conclusions:

Test One: Played several low bass tones (50 Hz, 40 Hz, 31.5 Hz) via Stereophile Test CD. Set Triton LF controls to Minimum. Toggled Onkyo Analog Direct Subwoofer setting to ON. Heard strong bass tones emitting from Triton Ones. Increased Triton One LF controls to “9 O’clock” setting. Heard increase in bass tones compared to Minimum setting. Bass tone levels continued to increase as Triton LF control was further increased.

Test Two: Same setup as Test One, except toggled Analog Direct Subwoofer setting to OFF. No sound heard from Triton One speakers with Analog Subwoofer setting at OFF, regardless of Triton LF control setting.

Test Three: Disconnected Triton One AC Plugs from wall sockets to remove power from Triton Sub amps. Played Test CD bass tones again with Analog Direct Subwoofer setting to ON. No sound heard from Triton One speakers with AC disconnected.

Conclusions from Tests One, Two and Three: With Onkyo Analog Direct Subwoofer setting ON, analog bass signals are being sent to the Onkyo Sub Woofer Outputs. These signals are present at the Triton Ones when the LFE inputs are connected to the Onkyo sub outputs. Strong bass can be heard in the Tritons when the Triton Amps are active, regardless of the setting of the Triton LF control and the bass increases when the Triton LF control settings are increased from Minimum. When Onkyo Analog Direct Subwoofer setting is OFF, no analog bass signals are being sent to the Onkyo Sub Woofer Outputs. All bass sounds disappear from the Tritons when the Triton Amp is not powered and with only the LFE cables connected.

Test Four Connections in use:

1. Onkyo NR 3009 Sub-woofer One Output connected to Denon AVR 790 Receiver Auxiliary Input via RCA audio cables.
2. Denon AVR 790 Receiver set to 7-Channel Stereo to hear whatever tones are coming down the cable from the Onkyo NR 3009 sub-woofer output.

Test Four Methods, Observations and Conclusions:

I received no response from Onkyo technical people to my emails asking for information about the signals present at the sub-woofer output when the Onkyo was set to Pure Direct Analog and with “Analog Direct Subwoofer” setting set to ON. Therefore, I decided to conduct an experiment to determine what signals are present when this setting is activated.

The methodology employed was to connect the Onkyo Sub-Woofer One Output to my Denon AVR 790 Receiver Auxiliary L/R Audio Input via RCA analog cables. By setting my Denon to “7-Channel Stereo” I would be able to hear whatever content was present on the Onkyo Sub-Woofer One output cable, both via my Rear Surround Speakers and my Paradigm Sub-Woofer which are connected to my Denon Receiver.

I played content from various sections of my Stereophile Test CD through this setup. It quickly became apparent that there were no usable signals above 200 Hz present on this cable. Playing various tracks on the Stereophile Test CD established that the usable signals present were between 200 Hz down to 20 Hz.

Next, I switched the Onkyo “Analog Direct Subwoofer” Setting to OFF. There were no sounds present from the Denon AVR 790 with this setting at OFF.

This test establishes to my satisfaction that my Onkyo NR 3009 is indeed sending only “analog bass” signals down the sub-woofer cables when I am listening to music in the Pure Direct Mode with “Analog Direct Subwoofer” turned ON. Again, to reiterate: Double Bass Setting was always turned OFF.

Overall Conclusions from Tests:

1. There is a significant increase in “analog bass” signal levels when I send “analog bass” directly into my Triton Ones via the LFE Input, coupled with using the “Analog Direct Subwoofer” option in my Onkyo NR 3009.

2. When I send “analog bass” signals into my Triton Ones, those signals are present and at increased volume levels even when the Triton Ones LF control is set to Minimum.

Questions for GE Moderator:

1. When you consider the results of my experiments, what can you say regarding the results I have demonstrated with regards to the functioning of the Triton One LF amplifier and the Minimum setting of the LF control on the back of the Triton One?

2. Do the results of my experiments bring any other thoughts to mind with regard to recommended settings options for Triton Series Owners?

Best regards to all Triton Series Owners,

Art
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Moderator Posted 4 years 7 months ago
#9197
Art,

After conferring with some of the engineers, I think I can offer a little more clarity regarding the Triton One LFE input and bass level control in general.

1) Think of it this way: Bass level control at center detent position is basically "flat" response when used with just speaker cable input. The level control offers roughly +/- 9 or 10 dB (gain or cut) control, so yes, it is correct that there is some bass output even with the level control set to minimum. Your speakers are operating correctly.

2) The level control's +/- adjustment also affects the LFE input, but since you can adjust LFE at your processor, there really is no specific point of "flat" with this input.

3) It seems every processor handles things differently. If the processor manual isn't clear enough, perhaps that company's tech support may help answer how everything is handled with their processor.

4) While you should tweak to taste, two good starting points with Tritons are:
a) Main speakers set to LARGE, sub set to YES or ON, double bass (et al) set to OFF. LFE cables connected.
b) Main speakers set to LARGE, sub set to NO or OFF, double bass (et al) set to OFF. NO LFE cables connected.
c) Generic recommendation is that all Triton towers be set to LARGE, then use A or B as your starting point. A will give you more adjustment flexibility.

I hope this is helpful.
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ArthurDaniels Posted 4 years 7 months ago
#9202
Mr. Moderator,

Yes, again, your comments are helpful. I do understand GE's recommendations and I agree with them. I was not concerned about whether or not my Triton Ones were operating correctly - in fact, I am really pleased that they are configured such that I have optional connection and setup approaches. I believe I have found the combination which works best for me.

I am now satisfied that I understand the various aspects of how my Onkyo and my Tritons are playing together. My current settings are: Triton Ones running at LARGE, Onkyo LFE Cutoff set to BYPASS, Analog Direct Subwoofer set to ON, Triton Ones LF control set to one dot above minimum.

I believe that a number of other Triton Series owners have either Onkyo or Integra Receivers and, therefore, also have access to the Analog Direct Subwoofer option. I hope that my experiments and findings will help them to explore listening options as I have.

I appreciate being able to participate in this forum and exchanging ideas and data with other Triton Series owners and I appreciate the efforts you have made to provide additional data and insights.

Happy listening to all.

Art
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