file How to get enough bass?

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rjohn79395 Posted 1 year 1 month ago
#22366
This seems to be a recurring topic....

First, it's my experience that GEt systems deliver balanced, full bass at even moderate SL's.

Second, there are apparently any number of receivers that roll off bass to full range speakers without sub on/LFE connections.

For any receiver playing 2.0 channel music without bass roll-off, at moderate and up volumes, my experience is that it does not need any bass "help" to fully present the music, bass and all. (Art and others, I do hear you that at low listening levels, bass, due to hearing limitations as volume is reduced, can be less detectable due to hearing losses).

For receivers that DO roll off bass to full range speakers without sub or/LFE connections, then setting the fronts to small, crossing them around 80 or 60 HZ, putting sub on and adding LFE connections moves that bass to the sub channel and can bypass the roll off and preserve that same bass (analog bypass can often get around that digital bass roll off also). My prior NAD T757 did roll off bass, my current Marantz SR 7010 DEFINITELY does not.

I do not use double bass with my LFE connections. I can only imagine using that setting at VERY low SL's to make up for what ears can't hear at those levels.

My current set up is not bass shy in any way, shape or form.

I guess my take is that bass on GEt speakers is very well balanced, and that if adjustments in the form of double bass or setting powered Triton fronts as small with sub on/LFE connections are needed it is only to correct hearing loss at low volumes (double bass), or to bypass receivers rolling off bass to what the designers thought might be less capable speakers than the the Tritons bring to the table, bass and otherwise.

I can only add that at no time with the current receiver, at any SL volume, have I been less than totally satisfied with the the bass those front and surround babies give me set at large (with LFE, sub on for LFE effects on .1 stuff only).

Whatever works for each of us.....

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, Invisa 525 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 7010
Amps: AT525NC 5 channel, Parasound 275 v.2 stereo
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, SONOS Connect
47" Panasonic 3D smart tv
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WayneWilmeth Posted 1 year 1 month ago
#22376
Interesting write up Bro Rick.
And I respect where you are coming from. And I pretty much agree.
I want a little more bass than I believe most here on the forum do. So I added a more powerful sub.
I have LFE connections to a pair of TOnes, and T 2s and a sub. It took me a while to get there, but now I am a happy camper, be it music or movies.
I guess I take my bass for granted now, but I had a bit of a wake up call the other day.
I put on a 5.0 SACD and right now I have my Oppo to my XMC-1 processor setup to play DSD direct. I have not looked into why, but with 5.0 music, no LFE, in this case my sub did not kick in. And I noticed that, with the other 4 speakers powered bass units playing, it sounded great, wonderful, but there was some bass lacking and I missed it. I need the sub.
Pure and simple, IF I were to play music that way very often, I would have to change the setting, something, the sub must be in the mix for me to be an ultra happy camper.
Thanks to bring up the discussion. I will probably be the odd man out, but there it is, SUB=NECESSARY.
God Bless,
Wayne
God bless the child that's got his own.
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ArthurDaniels Posted 1 year 1 month ago
#22386
Hi Rick,

Nice post. This is truly an interesting topic. As you know, I have written extensively about my experiments with different connections and settings. Thus far, the most satisfying approach I have found is to add a bit of bass support to my Triton Ones by connecting the Preamp Output from my Cambridge 851 2-channel amp to the LFE inputs.

I have the Tritons' LFE control set to between 9:00 and 10:00 o'clock. I also have a separate Paradigm DSP 3400 15" powered sub in my audio-only setup. Currently, it is being driven by a fixed line output from my Cambridge 851. But, I will switch it to the preamp output from the Cambridge CXR120 when it arrives. The advantage to the preamp output is that its level varies with the volume control.

We will never resolve this discussion to everyone's satisfaction with a single approach. It would be fun to be able to directly compare setups, but without a lot of travel, it cannot be done, except through comments on this forum.

It is my firm belief that everyone who is searching for "the perfect setup" should learn everything they can about how these technologies work and how their specific gear works. Then, experiment with their own equipment in their own environment. I don't believe there is any other way to find the best arrangement. There are simply too many variables.

I share the details of what I am up to, not expecting anyone to simply copy my approach, but rather to offer perhaps additional ways to approach the issue. It is a journey - one which I thoroughly enjoy.

Happy listening to all, indeed!

Art
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ArthurDaniels Posted 1 year 1 month ago
#22396
Wayne,

The answer is in your post. 5.0 SACD. .0 = no LFE signal encoded.

If your receiver is playing in a Direct Mode, it probably will not generate a 0.1 LFE signal. Do you have the option to play the 5.0 SACD in a mode which generates an LFE signal?

Best,

Art
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rjohn79395 Posted 1 year 1 month ago
#22397
Hi, Wayne and Art

Thanks for replying. Total respect for your set-ups, input, knowledge, listening preferences, etc. Whatever works for each of us.

I think some of the "thirst for more" concerning bass involves DEEP, sub 25 HZ bass such as produced via low pipe organ notes, double bass instruments, etc. I have a HDCD recording of Virgil Fox playing some pretty deep Bach Fugues on pipe organ. I do seem to hear it all, even FEEL the bass when played on the T Ref's and T1's. (Art, IF you end up getting Ref's and use your T1's as surrounds, I'll be very interested in what that combo does for your bass thirst, with the music types you play and the sound levels you like to listen at....)

Happy listening and experimenting!

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, Invisa 525 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 7010
Amps: AT525NC 5 channel, Parasound 275 v.2 stereo
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, SONOS Connect
47" Panasonic 3D smart tv
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WayneWilmeth Posted 1 year 1 month ago
#22418
Yes Guys,

Bro Rick, I do NEED/WANT to hear deep bass notes from the organ, from Bro FOX or the beginning of "Also Sprach Zarathustra" by Strauss, or in Saint Saens' #3 "Organ" symphony. But the Double Bass is what I relish hearing the most. Gary Karr plays the Double Bass accompanied by an organ in many pieces and that is like Reeses' Peanut Butter cups to me, just about all the goodness in the world in one place!!!!! BASS!!!!!!

Bro Art, let me explain a bit, and correct the wording a bit, not to be pedantic, but so that anyone reading will not be confused.
I don't have a receiver, so what is going on is, my Oppo player is set somehow (I forget now) so that when I play a 5.0 SACD, it plays in DSD Direct mode when it gets to my XMC-1 pre-processor. That does not generate a sub output, of course because there is no LFE, as that is only for movies. But there is also no X.1 channel, no sub channel, therefore there is no output to the sub.
Yes, there is a setting in the Oppo for the output going to the XMC-1 pre-processor so that bass will be output to my sub. I have not done that yet as I am interested in the DSD Direct sound right now, just giving that a listen first. AND this has been a VERY busy time, my wife's birthday on Monday, my daughter's high school graduation and Valentine's Day today. My wife and daughter are making and selling flower arrangements for both graduation and VD, locally and online. So we have been covered up here, it is like a factory!
Thanks guys,
All the best BASS,
God Bless,
Wayne
God bless the child that's got his own.
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