file Question about Full-Range/Large & LFE input

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Jarery Posted 3 years 7 months ago
Last edit: 3 years 7 months ago by Jarery. info_outline
#13824
Typo on my part, I forgot to change Option C to D. ;)

Thank you for clarifying the "under 80hz" from all speakers only gets redirected to the Large speakers not the subs, and the LFE channel only gets sent to the subs and not the large speakers. Of all the research I read this was unclear. If the mains are set to small does the "under 80hz" then get sent to the LFE channel ?

I agree that it would be best to use the Option C, and remove LFE from the GoldenEars, if I had a room that was symmetric, to achieve the cleanest sound.

Where this makes it unfortunate for me is the room I have to deal with has horrible base response. If I utilize the LFE inputs on the Tritons it allows me to have basically 4 subwoofers in 4 corners of my room and smooths out the response much better than with only two external subs, at least on the LFE track. By using the Tritons LFE I can also route all 4 through a MiniDSP and EQ the response better than Audessey itself does.

Here is the REW LFE output with Audessey from my room utilizing the LFE with both Tritons and both external Subs



Its terrible and sounds about as bad. Using only the 2 external subs its even worse, and I have moved them endlessly around the room, this is the best it gets and without the Tritons help its much worse. Now adding in the MiniDSP I achieve better



So this looks much better, except the above 90hz area which I didn't correct as everything is crossed over at 80. And it sounds much better. Much tighter bass, and much more low end base without boomy rumble when sitting in the main seating area, which I also cant move enough to correct the null.

So removing the LFE from the Tritons should give me the best sound, but by utilizing it I can get much better sounding bass by EQ'ing the LFE channel of subs in 4 corners than just 2 corners when the Tritons have no LFE.

What I cannot do though is improve the "under 80hz" bass which is being sent from all 9 other speakers and sent to the R&L mains since they are Large, and this is being sent down the speakers wires. I have to rely on Audessey for that. Which so far inst great. I'm still sitting in a null for the 30-40hz and 73hz ranges of all non LFE bass.

If I did the unthinkable, and set the Tritons to small, then all "under 80hz" and all LFE gets redirected to the AVR's sub output and I would be able to use MiniDSP EQ's ability to try and achieve a better response. Is that correct ?
But now I'm bypassing the Tritons amazing crossover technology and the exceptional way they integrate the powered bass with the mid and treble of the speaker. Sounds kinda bass ackwards......(pardon the pun)

So yes I guess i need to do more experimenting, and yes I still find time to enjoy what I have regardless of the above tinkering :woohoo:
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T Cobe Posted 3 years 7 months ago
#13828
Jarery,

Every system has limitations and requires some sort of compromise unless you're spending big money and building a theater space from scratch. Audessey and room acoustics are a big challenge. I have also not been impressed with the results I had achieved with Audessey and usually left it turned off. I have found Anthem Room Correction to be much better. It does look like your getting some great results on your bass correction.

As previously discussed, I have LFEs running into my Tritons for home theater use only. When listening to music, everything is run with speaker level inputs only unless I'm listening to multichannel music. I really enjoy the LFE the T1s produce. It is clean, powerful, and very tonally accurate. Everything I imagine when people describe a sub as musical. I also use a third sub directly behind my PLP for even better dispersion and impact. I have the crossover on that sub set at around 80 Hz , while my T1s are around 100. The overall effect with these settings and ARC applied is pretty sweet!

I suppose the trade off is either better bass dispersion with LFE or more accurate and dynamic L/R mains without. IMO, the added LFE is more significant than the losses it creates. The T1s are a great speaker and it does everything very well. There is a lot of flexibility but I have found that Sandy's setup tips are the best for me. Let us know how things work out and what you settle in on.

Cheers,

T Cobe
Speakers: Triton One L/R, SCXL, Aon 3 Surr/Back, HTR-7000 Height
Pre/Pro/AVR: Anthem AVM 60, Emotiva XSP-1
Amps: Emotiva XPA-5(2), Emotiva XPA-1L (2)
Sources: Oppo BDP-103D, Emotiva ERC-3, PS4, Pioneer PLX-1000 w/Ortofon 2M Bronze
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Moderator Posted 3 years 7 months ago
Last edit: 3 years 7 months ago by Moderator. info_outline
#13832

Jarery wrote: If the mains are set to small does the "under 80hz" then get sent to the LFE channel ?

I agree that it would be best to use the Option C, and remove LFE from the GoldenEars, if I had a room that was symmetric, to achieve the cleanest sound.

Where this makes it unfortunate for me is the room I have to deal with has horrible base response. If I utilize the LFE inputs on the Tritons it allows me to have basically 4 subwoofers in 4 corners of my room and smooths out the response much better than with only two external subs, at least on the LFE track. By using the Tritons LFE I can also route all 4 through a MiniDSP and EQ the response better than Audessey itself does.

So removing the LFE from the Tritons should give me the best sound, but by utilizing it I can get much better sounding bass by EQ'ing the LFE channel of subs in 4 corners than just 2 corners when the Tritons have no LFE.

What I cannot do though is improve the "under 80hz" bass which is being sent from all 9 other speakers and sent to the R&L mains since they are Large, and this is being sent down the speakers wires. I have to rely on Audessey for that. Which so far inst great. I'm still sitting in a null for the 30-40hz and 73hz ranges of all non LFE bass.

If I did the unthinkable, and set the Tritons to small, then all "under 80hz" and all LFE gets redirected to the AVR's sub output and I would be able to use MiniDSP EQ's ability to try and achieve a better response. Is that correct ?


Trying to address just your questions:

1) If the L/R mains are set to small then all small channels bass below the crossover is sent down the sub-out/LFE channel.

2) Not best option, just a good one. We prefer the four subs setup, using the LFE on the Tritons, as well. Typically we would do that with four Triton towers' subs (L/R and Surrounds). Sounds like you already got to that same conclusion.

3) Sounds like some room treatments might be needed, although I would also first suggest playing around with positioning of speakers producing bass, a little bit can make a big difference.

4) No, don't set the Tritons to small (going to get a few arguments on that here, but its all good).
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Jarery Posted 3 years 7 months ago
#13834
Moderator and T Cobe
Thanks both for the replies.

Sounds like I'll be hearing frequency sweeps a lot more for the next month, lots of variables. I have about 6 positional layouts of the dual external subs, some with high waf approval some less so. I'll have to get sweeps of all 6 options with and then again without the Tritons LFE channel and see what sounds the best.

I was trying to avoid room treatments for the bass, and achieve my results through multiple subs instead. I will be adding some absorption panels at the first reflection points and ceiling but that wont change the bass null at 30-40 hz.

And if all else fails, my dealer has a floor model demo set of original Triton 2's, or the new Triton 3+'s, for similar prices. I could always add those as my surrounds, and utilize all 4 Triton LFE channels, plus the two 15" subs. If I cant get good bass with that I'll sell it all and buy headphones. :evil:
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T Cobe Posted 3 years 7 months ago
#13835
Jarery,

6 powered subs sounds extreme...I like the way you think! :evil:

That said, I agree on not setting your T1s to small. As you indicated previously, you'd be bypassing the internal crossovers and messing with the total integration of the sound. I'd trust the T1s over an AVR. I've tried other recommended setups and just prefer the sound of the T1s at full range. Of course, I would encourage you to conduct your own experiments to reach your own conclusions.

My bass issues are in the 100 to 200 Hz range. I have played around with positioning to do the best I can but there are issues that I simply can't address practically (SBIR). I have 2 bass traps arriving today and look forward to testing them out. I'll share my results. GIK Acoustics has a lot of info on their website. I've also found the following site helpful.

arqen.com/acoustics-101/surround-sound-speaker-placement/

Good luck getting things tuned up. Keep us posted on your findings, please. Also, make sure you enjoy the music. Running too many frequency sweeps and not enjoying what you have could drive you nutty.

Cheers,

T Cobe
Speakers: Triton One L/R, SCXL, Aon 3 Surr/Back, HTR-7000 Height
Pre/Pro/AVR: Anthem AVM 60, Emotiva XSP-1
Amps: Emotiva XPA-5(2), Emotiva XPA-1L (2)
Sources: Oppo BDP-103D, Emotiva ERC-3, PS4, Pioneer PLX-1000 w/Ortofon 2M Bronze
Display: Epson 6030 UB, Elite Screens 110" Sable

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rjohn79395 Posted 3 years 7 months ago
Last edit: 3 years 7 months ago by Moderator. info_outline
#13844

Moderator wrote: We prefer the four subs setup, using the LFE on the Tritons, as well. Typically we would do that with four Triton towers' subs (L/R and Surrounds). Sounds like you already got to that same conclusion.]


I totally agree with Moderator Dude: four Triton powered subs are absolutly amazing. The bass just fills the room! T1's and T2's just sing together! I've listened to lots of setups, including other GEt towers and even SSXXL's added, and great sound systems at shows, and I continue to just love, and favor, the bass and SQ I get from the T1's/T2's. So balanced, so deep, so room filling, so rich and detailed. Movies, music, doesn't matter. Everything from mind blowing bass in "Mad Max" movies, to chest pumping but musical bass in music Blu-rays. I'm not about to trade what I have for anything. The Tritons are set as Large, with LFE feeds for .1 stuff. I had no idea until I found GEt speakers that I could possibly have such gorgeous, room filling sound!

Rick
5.4.4 HT speakers: T Ref fronts/LFE 1, SuperCenter Ref, T1 surrounds/LFE 2, HTR 7000 top fronts, Invisa 525 top rears
Zone 2 speakers; 2 Invisa 525's
AVR: Marantz SR 7010
Amps: AT525NC 5 channel, Parasound 275 v.2 stereo
Cable/TiVo, OPPO BDP 105D, SONOS Connect
47" Panasonic 3D smart tv
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