file Question about Full-Range/Large & LFE input

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imahawki Posted 3 years 3 months ago
#13846
I've been wanting to reply to this but haven't had the time. For some reason GEt got blocked by my employer's web proxy as "suspicious". I can't really request to unblock it even though I assume it was blocked in error.

Any way, bass management is tricky. The first AVR company to remove all the noise and explain to people what settings they need will make a lot of money. As it stands, I've seen some terrible implementations from mainstream manufacturers. The first thing to always keep in mind that I see people struggle with conceptually is that LFE and subwoofer are not the same thing. A subwoofer is a speaker, LFE is a channel, just like right or center channel. Yes, you typically send your LFE to a subwoofer. Unless you don't have one.

The Tritons give you some flexibility. You can think of them as full range speakers (forget that they're powered, how they get to be full range is irrelevant here). Or you can think of them as full range speakers sitting on top of a subwoofer. I would NOT think of them as limited range speakers sitting on top of a subwoofer. That makes no sense in my opinion.

So your setup options are either run speaker wires to them and they're full range speakers. In this case you have no subs. If you tell your AVR you have no subs, it SHOULD send the LFE signal out over the L/R speaker wires.

Or you can run an RCA cable from your LFE out to your Tritons. In this case, you tell your AVR you have a sub (if you don't, there won't be any signal coming over that RCA cable). Now you have a full range speaker and a sub.

Finally, the other channels. This is where bass management comes in. Any speaker you set to small, your AVR will send the bass to wherever it sends the LFE channel. This is IN ADDITION to the LFE channel. They're still separate!!! If you have no subs, it will take all that bass from ALL your small speakers and send it to the L/R speakers. If you do have a sub, it will send it to the subwoofer. This routing has zero impact on the LFE channel.

Clear as mud?
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T Cobe Posted 3 years 3 months ago
#13848
Great description and summary, Imahawki! Congrats on the win today in the tournament. Looks like the Hawkeyes and Badgers had extremely close games.

Cheers,

T Cobe
Speakers: Triton One L/R, SCXL, Aon 3 Surr/Back, HTR-7000 Height
Pre/Pro/AVR: Anthem AVM 60, Emotiva XSP-1
Amps: Emotiva XPA-5(2), Emotiva XPA-1L (2)
Sources: Oppo BDP-103D, Emotiva ERC-3, PS4, Pioneer PLX-1000 w/Ortofon 2M Bronze
Display: Epson 6030 UB, Elite Screens 110" Sable

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ArthurDaniels Posted 3 years 3 months ago
#13853
Yes, Imahawki, a very complete and concise description. I will add only one comment:

Some receivers, such as my Onkyo NR 3009, offer an additional bass-management option. When I set the receiver to the "Pure Direct" mode for listening to music, in addition to providing signals to only the front L/R speakers, the receiver also offers the option to send bass signals to the sub-woofer outputs by turning ON a feature called "Direct Analog Bass".

With this feature and RCA cable connections from my Onkyo sub-woofer outputs to the "LFE Inputs" on my Triton Ones, I can set the Triton Ones to FULL RANGE (LARGE) in my Onkyo and also send the bass signals to the Triton Ones LFE Inputs. I have found this arrangement to be very satisfactory for listening to two-channel music as well as watching movies with an LFE-signal component in the sound.

Happy Listening,

Art
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imahawki Posted 3 years 3 months ago
#13854
Thanks both. Yes T Cobe, the definition of a buzzer beater. Not a long dramatic half court shot but a miss and the put-back left our center's hands with like .8 seconds left.

On topic, bass management is an area I still see people get wrong and the AVR software still screws it up too. You have to understand it at least a little bit to get your system set up optimally. I'm beating a dead horse here but if you understand the DIFFERENCE between the LFE channel and re-routing bass from other channels to your sub, you're getting there.
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Jarery Posted 3 years 3 months ago
Last edit: 3 years 3 months ago by Moderator. info_outline
#13855

imahawki wrote: Finally, the other channels. This is where bass management comes in. Any speaker you set to small, your AVR will send the bass to wherever it sends the LFE channel. This is IN ADDITION to the LFE channel. They're still separate!!! If you have no subs, it will take all that bass from ALL your small speakers and send it to the L/R speakers. If you do have a sub, it will send it to the subwoofer. This routing has zero impact on the LFE channel.

Clear as mud?


Imahawki Thanks for the post. Your explanation is what I had also believed it should be. And here's where the confusion comes in, and why I asked specifically what happens to the audio under the crossover point from speakers set to small when a system has L&R set to large and the AVR sub out set to yes.

Moderator dude replied with the following : OK, here's a simple answer to the main question at the end: In that scenario C, all the bass below the crossover on small setting channels goes to the Large Main L/R speakers. Only LFE goes to your outboard subs (only).

This is counter to what you just posted. From my understanding based on Moderators reply, the ONLY way to get the bass under crossover setting from small speakers to get routed to an external sub is to have all the speakers set to small. As soon as any speakers are set to large, they receive all the bass from the small speakers. The only bass going to external subs in a system with Large speakers is LFE.

Yep, lots of mud. Perhaps Moderator can help clear the water again
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imahawki Posted 3 years 3 months ago
#13856
Assuming you trust these guys, read this. It confirms my explanation.

www.svsound.com/blogs/svs/75366339-digit...-management-a-primer

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