file SuperSub XXL

  • imahawki's Avatar Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Elite Member
    • Posts: 278
    • Thank you received: 578
    • Karma: 1
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
imahawki Posted 5 years 11 months ago
Last edit: 5 years 11 months ago by imahawki. info_outline
#10981

Hi Imahawki,
I agree totally it is all in the implementation of whichever technology is being used.
And I agree totally that tests should be standardized so it is all apples and apples.
And Moderator Dude, I agree totally that a LOT about those tests does not tell the whole story. But IF there is any point in reporting frequency response, for example, then report the low end as -3dB as is agreed practice, or not at all. IF amps report WPC, then report the total harmonic distortion at so many ohms RMS all channels driven.
Measurements are only what they are, and should be used (or not) as a rough guide. But playing with how the numbers are reported does not serve for better understanding.
We all have read of Brand X receiver with 7 channels amplification having 1000 watts!!!! When it really has 50 wpc if reported correctly.
I am not interested in getting into an argument over testing or specifications.
Just trying to bring a little balance to the issue.
Happy Listening,
God Bless,
Wayne


Thanks Wayne, but let's make sure we are distinguishing between "electrical" tests and "sonic" tests. Electrical tests are meaningful in and of themselves (RMS power is the best example), as long as the standards of measurement are the same (like you said, all channels driven, 20-20K, at specified distortion is the preferred reality test), you can make comparisons. Unfortunately, the results of these tests tell you nothing about how the amp sounds on a particular speaker, or how loud it will make it play. But Sonic test measurements, regardless if they are all apples to apples (and they NEVER are), absolutely do not describe the listening experience differences in any meaningful way, or in any way that can allow for comparison or decision making. Listening is the only valid tool we have today, comparing speakers and subs by the specs or by some random test is beyond worthless, its misleading.


Specs don't describe the listening experience but they DO give an idea of capabilities. Would you buy a subwoofer if the manufacturer quoted frequency response was 40Hz - 120Hz? You might say "I'd have to hear it first" but I'm guessing such a product would be dead in the water and most people wouldn't even demo such a subwoofer.

I'm new to GoldenEar but I've been around the block several times. I even run my own AV forum. I understand as much as the next guy that specs don't tell the whole story. However you also can't defy physics. I get that there are subs out there with great CEA-2010 measurements that are not musical, not flat, hard to integrate, huge, extremely expensive, etc. BUT, if a sub has no measurable output at 16Hz in that test, it isn't magically going to be reasonably flat to 16Hz in-room. Room gain increases frequencies that ARE being produced. So no, CEA-2010 will NOT tell you how a sub will sound. It will tell you if it can really play 14Hz or 16Hz or even 20Hz.

Note that I'm speaking generally. I'm NOT disparaging or calling into question GoldenEars published specs. I'm merely discussing the value of specs even for sonic attributes. If GoldenEar didn't agree on some level they wouldn't post frequency response specs at all.
The following user(s) said Thank You: WayneWilmeth, T Cobe

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • T Cobe's Avatar Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
    • Posts: 2301
    • Thank you received: 4381
    • Karma: 5
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
T Cobe Posted 5 years 11 months ago
#10988
All great points here and all are true in my opinion. The most important factor in deciding on an audio component is sound. Nothing can tell you if you are going to like the sound of a particular product. As big as the audio market is and as difficult as it can be to find a dealer with a particular brand near you, other factors are important to help eliminate potential options before you start auditioning first hand. Listening to every option in your price range would be extremely difficult and terribly time consuming.

To help narrow down my options, I turn to user reviews and professional reviews with objective data. User reviews are very subjective but can provide some valuable insight on brand satisfaction, support, interactions with associated equipment, and cues on strengths and weaknesses. Professional reviews with objective measurements help paint the picture as well. I've learned through the years to trust reviews more that include measurements as objective results can provide insight into sound if accomplished and provided accurately.

All of the factors above led me to GET! Obviously, the sound was most important and I would not have invested my hard earned money into the gear if it didn't sound great; however, prior to first hand listening, I was impressed by the user and professional reviews of their products and of course, the objective measurements were all very good as well.

GET has a very sophisticated facility and does extensive testing of its products as well, so clearly measurements mean something. Just not everything. Then of course, there are internet trolls that agonize over the tiniest details and speak negatively about products they have never listened to based on a squiggly line that wasn't 100% "perfect" based on someone's opinions on measurements taken in a far from perfect environment.... People do abuse, misuse and misrepresent objective data and this does muddy the waters. In the end, the best advice is to trust your own ear.

Cheers,

T Cobe
Speakers: Triton One L/R, SCXL, Aon 3 Surr/Back, HTR-7000 Height
Pre/Pro/AVR: Anthem AVM 60, Emotiva XSP-1
Amps: Emotiva XPA-5(2), Emotiva XPA-1L (2)
Sources: Oppo BDP-103D, Emotiva ERC-3, PS4, Pioneer PLX-1000 w/Ortofon 2M Bronze
Display: Epson 6030 UB, Elite Screens 110" Sable
The following user(s) said Thank You: Moderator, WayneWilmeth, rjohn79395

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Moderator's Avatar Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
    • Posts: 3118
    • Thank you received: 3377
    • Karma: 19
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
Moderator Posted 5 years 11 months ago
#10992
Thanks T Cobe, we agree on all fronts. And yes, we use very sophisticated tools in the design of our products. But these are design aides and provide no assistance to the buyer making comparisons. In my experience, products that throw around the best specs (true or not) are often some of the worst sounding products in the category.
The following user(s) said Thank You: WayneWilmeth, T Cobe

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • twinturbo11's Avatar Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Senior Member
    • Posts: 73
    • Thank you received: 87
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
twinturbo11 Posted 5 years 8 months ago
#12618
Hey guys, any other reviews of the XXL except for 1 or 2 out there?

Any thoughts on the new "baby xxl" ?

Anyone compared the XXL to the higher-end SVS subs?
HTR7000 7.1.2 ATMOS setup
Marantz SR7011 Atmos Receiver
Nvidia Shield 4k Media Player
Sonos Connect
Sony PS4 Pro
Laser 4k Projector (soon)
Elite 150" motorized screen
The following user(s) said Thank You: WayneWilmeth, T Cobe

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • T Cobe's Avatar Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Platinum Member
    • Posts: 2301
    • Thank you received: 4381
    • Karma: 5
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
T Cobe Posted 5 years 8 months ago
#12621
Twinturbo11,

The forum has been nearly silent regarding the SuperSubXXL. I'm not sure we've had anyone provide a personal review. It would be nice if a few folks would chime in on this one. Maybe even someone that has heard a demo at their local dealer... I don't have a GET theater setup anywhere near me. :(

Regarding the SuperSubX, maybe Moderator Dude could provide a little more info? Besides being much smaller and less expensive than the XXL, how does it compare to the other subs in the GET. Line in terms of capabilities? When I first heard about the SuperSubX, I admit I wasn't that interested but I didn't realize just how small it was. Two of those could blend in quite nicely into just abou any room.

Regarding a comparison, I recently noticed on GETs Facebook page that XTZ sound was trying to challenge GET to a subwoofer shootout with their enormous 3x12. XTZs sub is much larger, more expensive, and has a very utilitarian mat finish. In all, I would say this is not an apples to apples comparison. I'm confident the SSXXL would do well but it made me wonder what GET could do with a no holds barred, large sized subwoofer like the XTZ or SVS offerings. Since I have a large room, size is not a concern to me. Large subs with more internal displacement seem to have an advantage in reaching the lowest frequencies. That makes subs like the SVS ported cylinders and boxes attractive to me.

Like you, Twinturbo, I would be interested in a comparison to see if the compact and room friendly size is a competitive disadvantage. The few reviews out there have not indicated this was an issue. In the end, it's probably more important to me that a sub be musical than be able to generate output at 16 Hz at -3 dB. Additionally, I would hypothesize that the X and XXL would be a better tonal match for the other GET speakers since they utilize the same technology. My ultimate plan is to replace my Paradigm DSP-3400 with a GET sub. While a great sub, it doesn't provide for an entirely cohesive sound. My T1s are far more musical in the lower registers but it does provide the last bit of bass power and dispersion I want. I'd love to replace it with the SuperSubXXL but I have too many other pieces to put in place first.

Keep us posted on what you find and ultimately decide on.

Cheers,

T Cobe
Speakers: Triton One L/R, SCXL, Aon 3 Surr/Back, HTR-7000 Height
Pre/Pro/AVR: Anthem AVM 60, Emotiva XSP-1
Amps: Emotiva XPA-5(2), Emotiva XPA-1L (2)
Sources: Oppo BDP-103D, Emotiva ERC-3, PS4, Pioneer PLX-1000 w/Ortofon 2M Bronze
Display: Epson 6030 UB, Elite Screens 110" Sable
The following user(s) said Thank You: WayneWilmeth, rjohn79395

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Moderator's Avatar Offline
  • Moderator
  • Moderator
    • Posts: 3118
    • Thank you received: 3377
    • Karma: 19
  • arrow_drop_downMore arrow_drop_upLess
Moderator Posted 5 years 8 months ago
Last edit: 5 years 8 months ago by Moderator. info_outline
#12623
Hi guys,

Had my first experience with the SuperSub X at CES. (BTW, the SuperSub XXL won a Design and Engineering award from CES this year, a very prestigious award recognizing unique design and cutting-edge engineering). The two things I can say for sure:

1) Once you have a vibration-free subwoofer in your room you will never go back to the vibrating boxes of the past;
2) Although I'm sure the XXL can play louder (engineering says it has the equivalent output of four ForceField 5's), the X sounded identical and one SuperSub X was capable of way more output than the large hotel room could handle.

It is amazingly small, I all but laughed when I saw it the first time. And just like the XXL, it did not seem to aggravate room nodes like a conventional sub (no doubt due to its four radiating surfaces). In terms of output, engineering tells us it has at least 1.5 dB more output at 25 Hz than a ForceField 5 (final numbers are not in yet as the design is tweaked and finalized for production).

As far as more reviews, we have some in process but its a lot harder to get subwoofer reviews than it is to get our other loudspeakers reviewed, most of the top reviewers don't want to review subs. Regarding competition from big, ugly subs, its easy to make high performance big ugly subs, all you need is a big driver or two, a big box, a big port and a big amp. If anyone wants a big ugly sub they should buy one of those. We do not make subs for people that want big ugly subs in their home, because 99% of the buyers don't want that. The challenge is making life-style sizes subs that exceed the performance expected from a small, pretty box. That's what we do. If you haven't heard the SuperSub XXL yet, you'll need to do so to understand.

I just ordered two for myself - smaller than the two ForceField 5's that occupy the space now, and much prettier too.
The following user(s) said Thank You: WayneWilmeth, rjohn79395, T Cobe

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: Moderator
menu
close
Menu
person_outline
arrow_back
You are here: Home Forum Support SuperSub Series SuperSub XXL